Epson and icc profile

[lnivin]

We have an Epson 10600, our customer an Epson 9900. We both used our Source profile with the idea our proofs would match. They are not even close.

We have the profile in our Prinergy workflow, they are putting it in their Epson controller.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[caveman]

Matching two different printers is much more complex than just use the same source profile. In a few words, you should record the ones behaviour and instruct the second to perform the same. In more than a few words : print a color managed test chart from the 10600, measure it and create a profile. Now you have recorded your printers behaviour. Use this profile as a simulation(or reference) profile when printing to the 9900. Now you instruct your printer to perform as the other one did.
Of course there are other ways to accomplish your goal, but it depends on the apllication you use for printing (in Colorproof XF for example I use another way, not the one I describe above).

 

[lnivin]

Thank you!

 

[lnivin]

We printed an IT8 on our Veris (which has great color). Created an ICC profile with a Gretag Spectroscan and Profile Wizard Mio. Used this as our Reference Target for our Integris Proof. The final product was WAY too Yellow and also a little too much Magenta.

Can Veris's not be used for profiling because of their inks?

 

[Correct Color]

Actually, the issue is not profiling one of these machines to print like the other. What you need to do is to get a good solid profile of each of them on the media you're using, then once you have a good profile for each of them you can set up a proofing workflow that tells each of them to emulate the device you're using them to proof.

But again, the first thing you must have in order to make that work is a good, solid profile of each device. And you get that by profiling each device from the ground up and completely on its own.

Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[TerryWyse]

I'm with Mike Adams on this.....while it seems logical, I think it's a BAD idea to print a color-managed chart from one inkjet printer, measure/profile that and use that as the source on the other.

If both printers are properly profiled (they both have good *destination* profiles) then the results should match fairly close using the same source profile.

If it were me, I'd compare the output of each printer to the data set used as the source profile and see what the delta e match is. If each printer is around 1 dE or less to the data set, the printers should match reasonably well. Don't expect an *exact* match since you're dealing with two different printers with different printing characteristics such as screening and ink sets.

Print/measure/verify!

Regards,
Terry

 

[caveman]

I have an example of trying to match an Epson 4000 to a 4880. Even though they print to the same paper, use the same source profiles and are optimised to an average of 3.5 - 4.0delta, there is a significant visual difference. Here is what I did:
It would be easier to much the older printer to the newest so I chose SP4000 as a reference. At the end of the optimisation (which is basicaly print/measure a target and the software, Colorproof XF, creates a Lab correction curve), I saved the last measurement with the lowest deltas. Then I used this measurement as a reference (instead of the source profile) to optimise the second printer. Both printers print within Fogras tolerances and they have a very good visual match. Of course having a good printer linearization and a good paper profile is mandatory. To be honest, I haven't used the " create a profile" part of my suggestion simply because I don't have to, but it sounded as a good idea to try, at least to me. I prefer to reject an idea based on experience and not on theory.

 

[michaelejahn]

When customers need to simulate a halftone dot and a press condition on an EPSON, we sell Star Proof and charge $1,600.00 - because it takes 4 hours to get from 'we hate it!" to "we love it". If they do not need halftone dots, we suggest ALWAN Print Optimizer (or Color Hub if they have multiple devices) - but it still takes time, as the process involves printing an IT8, measuring it creating a profile and using the rocks in my noggin'. It is not "rocket surgery" as my wife likes to say, but if you have never been to the rodeo, sometimes it is helpful to hire a color cowboy.

My two DeltaEs.

 

[Prepper]

Comparing Proofs

Comparing Proofs

Just in case...Always remember to view under the correct lighting. That is something we've encountered here, one proofer greenish the other reddish in my office but match very close under correct lighting at press.

 

[Johu]

I second Prepper on the correct light. I have done several cross matches (Epson 7600 and 9800 (very different inks from one another). Epson 4800 and Canon iPF5000 (again very different inks) etc.. the key is to make the visual assesment in correct lighting as the inks react differently on different lighting conditions. The old Epsons and Canon iPFX100 series tend to turn reddish on "normal office light" and curretn epsons as well as older Canons turn more greenish. I have found that Oris ColorTuners iterative color match bundled with their UCR/GCR setting makes the proofs react less on the lighting.

On the original subject I wouls also suggest a good proofing software that would bring the different devices as close as possible to the desired target profile.