Flattening PDF files

[MitchtheMitch]

What would be the problem in flattening a PDF before being sent to a RIP? We're a Prinergy user and have always left PDF files "as-is" but we've seen some different digital front ends not interpreting the transparency properly. We could rasterize the PDF files before sending but what would be the harm in flattening them in the normalizing process?

Thanks everyone

 

[Joe]

Rasterizing them and flattening them are not the same thing. Rasterizing converts all objects to an image at whatever resolution you tell it to while flattening will still keep vector and text objects as vector and text. And there would be nothing wrong with flattening them when normalizing them if it makes them work.

 

[Red_Right_Arm]

As Joe said, flattening and rasterizing them are not the same thing. If you are asking about flattening them, but you mean you want to rasterize them, basically you'll lose all your spot color data. Everything will be converted to CMYK. How well that works for your color management and printing workflow is what you'd have to evaluate. At our shop it would be catastrophic to make everything a process image because of the errors this would produce on press.

 

[MitchtheMitch]

Rasterizing them and flattening them are not the same thing. Rasterizing converts all objects to an image at whatever resolution you tell it to while flattening will still keep vector and text objects as vector and text. And there would be nothing wrong with flattening them when normalizing them if it makes them work.

Oh I realize they rasterizing is different from flattening - what I meant was we achieve similiar "fixes" to our RIP issues by either rasterizing in the output process or flattening in the normalizing process. It's more taxing on the system to rasterize than to flatten, therefore I wanted to see if anyone could point out potential issues with flattening in the normalizing process. Thank you for the response?

 

[Dov Isaacs]

What would be the problem in flattening a PDF before being sent to a RIP? We're a Prinergy user and have always left PDF files "as-is" but we've seen some different digital front ends not interpreting the transparency properly. We could rasterize the PDF files before sending but what would be the harm in flattening them in the normalizing process?

Thanks everyone

The underlying technology of Prinergy since Prinergy 4 is the Adobe PDF Print Engine in which we eliminated the need convert PDF to PostScript and then RIP the PostScript. The Adobe PDF Print Engine also totally eliminated the need to “normalize” PDF files in a Prinergy workflow (convert the PDF to PostScript and then back to PDF again).

The concept behind the Adobe PDF Print Engine is that one keeps PDF at its highest level of abstraction all the way to the RIP process itself. Best results are obtained if one does not ruin the PDF file by prematurely flattening transparency. Best results are obtained if color management and transparency blending (as well as trapping) are performed as an integral part of the RIP processing. That is exactly what the Adobe PDF Print Engine was designed to do and it does it magnificently!

Don't ruin your PDF by flattening live transparency, prematurely converting color spaces to CMYK, or other stupid things such as either outlining text or (gasp!) rasterizing whole pages!

- Dov

 

[Joe]

While I agree 100% with what Dov has stated I will remind him that many of the digital front ends cannot handle transparency and needs to be flattened in some way before getting to it. I'm looking at you Fiery!

 

[Dov Isaacs]

While I agree 100% with what Dov has stated I will remind him that many of the digital front ends cannot handle transparency and needs to be flattened in some way before getting to it. I'm looking at you Fiery!

Any digital front end using based on the Adobe PDF Print Engine or Global Graphics Harlequin technology (and that is the vast majority of DFEs) supports live transparency and color management at the RIP. Even ancient CPSI-based DFEs from over 10 years ago will deal with transparency and color management (as well as you might by flattening in Acrobat or in creation of PDF, although not as well as at the RIP/DFE).

Joe, exactly what obsolete DFEs are you referring to?

- Dov

 

[Joe]

Fiery System: FS100

 

[Danny Whitehead]

Fiery System: FS100

And you're using APPE? I've not seen any transparency issues on our IC-308.

 

[Joe]

No, Prinergy is not outputting to the color copier. The copier is stand alone with the Fiery RIP. The problem is copying PDF's with live transparency into Command Workstation. Prinergy is not involved at all with the copier.

 

[Danny Whitehead]

No, Prinergy is not outputting to the color copier. The copier is stand alone with the Fiery RIP. The problem is copying PDF's with live transparency into Command Workstation. Prinergy is not involved at all with the copier.

The FS100 has APPE too. You can choose it in the options for a job, or set it as the default. Using APPE, we don't see the transparency issues we used to with older Fierys (which mostly involved transparency interacting with spot colours).

 

[Joe]

The FS100 has APPE too. You can choose it in the options for a job, or set it as the default. Using APPE, we don't see the transparency issues we used to with older Fierys (which mostly involved transparency interacting with spot colours).

Really? I will check that out today. Thanks.

 

[Danny Whitehead]

Really? I will check that out today. Thanks.

Yep, it's right there at the top of Job Properties (Use Adobe PDF Print Engine), and you can set it in Configuration under RIP > APPE.

 

[Joe]

Do you have a screen shot where these settings are? I have looked everywhere in my Command Workstation (ver. 5.0.8.39 SP2) and do not see any mention of APPE anywhere.

 

[michaelejahn]

Don't ruin your PDF by flattening live transparency, prematurely converting color spaces to CMYK, or other stupid things such as either outlining text or (gasp!) rasterizing whole pages!

- Dov

http://michaelejahn.blogspot.com/2008/06/stop-spdfs-stop-transparencide.html

 

[mwc]

Do you have a screen shot where these settings are? I have looked everywhere in my Command Workstation (ver. 5.0.8.39 SP2) and do not see any mention of APPE anywhere.

Yoda Voice >Hide it they Do<......Server>Configure>PDL>Adobe Print Engine

 

[Joe]

No setting there for me. We must have gotten the bargain basement edition.

 

[Danny Whitehead]

Do you have a screen shot where these settings are? I have looked everywhere in my Command Workstation (ver. 5.0.8.39 SP2) and do not see any mention of APPE anywhere.

The Fiery's a bit tied up right now, and I've uninstalled CWS from the Mac I'm using, but there's a guide here ('Enable a native PDF workflow with APPE'):
http://www.efi.com/resources/fiery-how-to-guides-and-docs/fiery-fs100-pro-and-fs100/

 

[mwc]

No Title

We have the Fiery FS100 Pro - Maybe APPE is just for the Pros?

 

[Joe]

We have the Fiery FS100 Pro - Maybe APPE is just for the Pros?

We do not have that setting and yes, our does not say Pro behind Fiery FS100. I guess we're just ameteurs!