Flattening question

Gregg

Well-known member
I have just recently sent a book jacket out to print (done in ID CS2), in which I was stumped re: Transparency. Hoping to get some feedback on if what I did was best.

Typically, all of our text is on the top layer and therefore not affected by any transparency flattening. Still, I always check my Flattener Preview for "Outlined Text" before sending the job out. This particular job had imagery that had to overlap the title. The cover illustration (which is of a boy), partially sits on top of one line of the title. The illustration is a PSD file with trans background placed in ID. So, in this case, the text could not be on the top most layer.

Since the title was going to be outlined when flattened I decided to open up the frame of the illustration so that it covered the entire title (not just the one line which it overlaps). My thinking was that if text is going to be outlined, it might as well be the whole title, so that if it does appear a little more bold, the whole title will be affected.

Here are my questions:
1. Was there a better way to set-this up? (I have done this similar design numerous times before, but using Quark 4, so the title, art, and background end up all being a flattened TIF)

2. Does the fact that the title is a spot-color change how things should have been done?

3. If the text is outlined will it even be an issue/noticeable when printed offset?

4. If my print vendor accepted live transparency, would I even need to worry about this? This brings up a another question, if a vendor does accept PDF 1.4 or above, at what point in their workflow is the transparency flattened? For this job, I send native files to our Repro-House for all of the proofing stages, once color is approved the repro-house sends PDFs to the printer (the PDFs are 1.3).

I realize this is lengthy, hope it is clear, and thanks in advance for any feedback.

Gregg
 
export from indesign with pdfx/1-a and it will flatten the transperacny (in therory), the best way is to print to PDF, you will always get problems with spot colour and transparency if there are any hints of CMY objects around it, even makes some rips crash, as for "Live transparency" way better to supply flattened files from your end than watch a RIP tick over for 2 hours on one page.
 
Gregg,

1. Was there a better way to set-this up? (I have done this similar design numerous times before, but using Quark 4, so the title, art, and background end up all being a flattened TIF)

What you did is perfect. But it still depend on the used flattening mechanism, if still the complete text gets outlined. If you do the flattening during the PDF export and Flattener Preview showed tho whole text to be outlined, than the result is as you designed and wanted it

2. Does the fact that the title is a spot-color change how things should have been done?

Yes. when it comes to spot color in combination with Spot colors, the Transparency effect is very often done by doing Spot Color Overprint over CMYK text elements. This way the text elements do not need to get outlined.

3. If the text is outlined will it even be an issue/noticeable when printed offset?

you only should see differences when the text is rendered at low resolution since the font hinting is missing. On a high resolution output you most likely will not see a difference.

4. If my print vendor accepted live transparency, would I even need to worry about this? This brings up a another question, if a vendor does accept PDF 1.4 or above, at what point in their workflow is the transparency flattened? For this job, I send native files to our Repro-House for all of the proofing stages, once color is approved the repro-house sends PDFs to the printer (the PDFs are 1.3).

The best way to render live transparency is to have a native PDF renderer like the Adobe Print Engine or the Harlequin Rips. this way transparencies do not get flattened, instead high res images gets rendered and then separated. You do not run into all the issues we face today when perform transparency flattening.

If your Repro House performs transparency flattening, they hopefully use appropriate technology like Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro and its flattening mechanism. Some companies are using automated systems like callas's pdfAutoOptimizer in conjunction with Adobe Acrobat or proprietary technology like Dalim ore OneVision to perform that task.

You only should worry if the printed results do not look as intended when using transparencies. It is a question of knowhow.

Regards,

Peter Kleinheider
callas software
 
It's a common misconception that spot colors and transparencies don't play nicely together. Yes, it is easier to keep your spot colors above all transparencies to avoid issues but sometimes that's not an option.

I absolutely agree with Cosmo that's best to supply a flattened file. This is for two reasons. First, it's bordering on amusing to watch how some rips fumble and choke on even partially excessive use of live tranparencies/spot colors. In some cases it really can crash a rip.

Secondly, I was visiting Esko Artworks earlier this year and was speaking to a product manager and developer/engineer type fellow who flat out admitted to me that flattening will always be an issue for them as well as for many other companies (who don't embrace the APPE... Adobe PDF Print Engine).... stating that transparencies we're created for web use and not for print. The conversation was about issues I'd seen when working with tranparencies/spot colors/InDesign effects etc. Their solution astounded me. They actually told me to let InDesign do the flattening... after all, if an Adobe based flattener (APPE) can't flatten it's own files how can their rip's flattener be expected to do it correctly? I've always been told to let a rip do the flattening... but if they either take too long to do so or can't handle it then why bother?

The moral of the story is to provide flattened files. You can use one of the preloaded PDF export presets or create your own (the route we've travelled with great success) but if you want to include spot colors in conjunction with transparencies just be sure to have Simulate Overprint selected in the export options. It should alleviate many of your issues and has worked for us without issue for many months now.

If I appear to be insane I apologize. My baby daughter spent the night screaming in my ear so I'm working on no sleep.... my connection with reality is vague at best at the moment. What day is it again?
 
If I appear to be insane I apologize. My baby daughter spent the night screaming in my ear so I'm working on no sleep.... my connection with reality is vague at best at the moment. What day is it again?

I, too, have a daughter (9 weeks old) that keeps me and the mrs. up all night. So I can relate!

Thanks for the responses.
 
I work for a printer. I want the PDF's with live transparency. I have much better luck letting Nexus flatten them then even the Adobe apps (InDesign and Acrobat). And with Nexus latest PDF workflow they never get flattened until screening the final imposed PDF.
 
Same as Joe here although I run a RAMpage system with a PDF trap engine. My take on the whole transparency issue is, if the customer supplies a flattened PDF and it traps in an odd way because of all those atomic pieces, it's their problem. O I can fix it, but it will be a billable item.
 
Same as Joe here although I run a RAMpage system with a PDF trap engine. My take on the whole transparency issue is, if the customer supplies a flattened PDF and it traps in an odd way because of all those atomic pieces, it's their problem. O I can fix it, but it will be a billable item.

Why not try and better educate your clients about the downsides of using transparency. If I knew a printer was charging me for fixing files, but not communicating with me about it, I would quickly move on to the next print vendor eagerly awaiting a new steady client.
 
LOL Gregg, you assume I have customers that can read and comprehend! Believe me, I'm all for educating them but few listen. And some get downright ornery. Like I said, if they use transparency and don't flatten all is well here, my issue's arise when they flatten the file even after they have been told, not to.
 
Then by all means, bill 'em. Bill' em high and bill 'em often. ;)

You're right, I wasn't looking at it from your point of view. If you are reaching out and they ignore it, then they deserve the "idiot designer" moniker, plus the extra file prep charge.

10 minutes until Corona time!
 
Since the title was going to be outlined when flattened I decided to open up the frame of the illustration so that it covered the entire title (not just the one line which it overlaps). My thinking was that if text is going to be outlined, it might as well be the whole title, so that if it does appear a little more bold, the whole title will be affected.

-----
Did you build yourself a RIP custom Flattener preset?
Build a Flattener that will rasterize the needed areas at the
resolution of the platesetter.

MSD
 
I did not get what the spot colour/transparency missconception was.
I have found that if spot colour is used and is intended to be printed as spot colour it is not a problem.
If Spot colour is intended not to be used (converted to CMYK) but the conversion is to occur at the RIP then a PDF format that supports live transparency must be used. A PDFx1a that includes spot colours that have been preserved where over printing is used in transparency flattening will not output correctly if the spot colour is converted to CMYK or remapped in the RIP.

In this thread it was not clear wether the spot colour in the title was actually to be printed in a spot colour. The separations Preview in Acrobat is of great help to QC the output either way.

PS. I just wanted to add that there may be tradeoffs with the APPE giving more flexibility, at a price of rendering detail (I did post a screendump in another thread). APPE and live transparency will be the future, but for a cover I would go with quality of detail and PDFx1a with it's proven track record.
 
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In this thread it was not clear wether the spot colour in the title was actually to be printed in a spot colour. The separations Preview in Acrobat is of great help to QC the output either way.

Yes, the spot is to remain spot. I wasn't sure, since the spot color would not be merging with the 4/c process plates, whether it would become outlined or not, even though it shows up as outlined in the Flattener Preview.
 
I work for a printer. I want the PDF's with live transparency. I have much better luck letting Nexus flatten them then even the Adobe apps (InDesign and Acrobat). And with Nexus latest PDF workflow they never get flattened until screening the final imposed PDF.

Ditto here
 
The cover illustration (which is of a boy), partially sits on top of one line of the title. The illustration is a PSD file with trans background placed in ID. So, in this case, the text could not be on the top most layer.

Gregg

Just composite the questionable text in photoshop if it's going to be rasterized anyway through flattening.
 
Flattening would outline the text. But it should not be a problem on a title (a text that is so small that hintng would make a difference normally wouldn't be partly covered by a subjects head). You may choose a PDFx1a or a workflow recomended by your service provider. Let the person you hand over to guide you, they are accepting responsibility to deliver the results you expect. Flattening is done in a series of masks. As I said before use your separations preview in Acrobat to verify your result.
 

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