FOGRA 39, GRACoL 2006, GRACoL 2013 Questions

[Green Printer]

http://www.sovsib.ru/color/iso12647_en.pdf

Read Annex A page 14 and 15.
How do you measure ink film thickness on a blanket?
How do you measure ink film thickness on printed sheet?
Who did the test and what were their procedures to arrive at the ink film thickness data?

This ISO standard is based on 75% of a committee agreeing to the numbers presented at the ISO meeting

I don't know what to believe anymore. The more in depth the more inconsistencies are coming to light. If you have established sid and tvi why would they need to be changed.

 

[gordo]

I don't know what to believe anymore.

Death and taxes.

This link will take you to a very useful document that addresses some of the issues with standards in printing. The confused and/or frustrated are not alone!
http://viewppt.com/docs/www__color-...015_POINT_ABOUT_ISO_12647_STANDARDS__pdf.html

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I don't know what to believe anymore. The more in depth the more inconsistencies are coming to light. If you have established sid and tvi why would they need to be changed.

It is very understandable that you don't know what to believe since so much of what the industry states as fact is more myth and misinformation than true proven facts or they are facts that are not relevant to specific problems. Knowledge has to be properly put into context.

It is not easy to know what is true, especially when there are many who always want to refer to past knowledge as if it was fact or even important. The good news seems to be that you are starting to doubt what you have heard. That is not the end of the path to understanding but it is a good start. Doubt drives the effort to look for valid knowledge. Last year, even Frank Romano bravely expressed concern with the difficulty of colour management. He probably does not know what the cause of the problems are but he knows that the industry is not being served well with its present methods.

It is possible that when you do find out what is true, you might not just feel good about understanding the problems but you might become angry at how stupid some of the experts have been over many decades.

 

[Green Printer]

Death and taxes.

This link will take you to a very useful document that addresses some of the issues with standards in printing. The confused and/or frustrated are not alone!
http://viewppt.com/docs/www__color-s...ARDS__pdf.html

Printers read the Color-Source link. Looks like we are being used as a cash patsies
direct link

http://www.color-source.net/en/Docs_Formation/2015_POINT_ABOUT_ISO_12647_STANDARDS.pdf

Thanks Gordo

 

[Mike Herndon]

Printers read the Color-Source link. Looks like we are being used as a cash patsies
direct link

http://www.color-source.net/en/Docs_Formation/2015_POINT_ABOUT_ISO_12647_STANDARDS.pdf

Thanks Gordo

Yes, thanks. Nice to know I am not alone on an island with my thoughts on color "standards".

Mike

 

[schenkadere]

Smoke and mirrors. Now that we've established this "standard" and all of your customers have bought in, forcing your hand, we'll change the "standard" and do it all over again.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Gordo, this doc states that the new Fogra51 uses the same TVI curves for all colours.


Stephen Marsh

 

[engin]

Gordo, this doc states that the new Fogra51 uses the same TVI curves for all colours.


Stephen Marsh

Some additional notes:
In the previous TVI curves, there was 3.0 % increments at 40 %, now the same but at 50 %.
When 12647-2:2013 came out, the b values of the papers were announced as -4 for both coated and uncoated papers but in reality they were much higher in the industry, the coated paper b values reahed up to -8 while for uncoated up to -12 due to continous increasing OBA content of papers, sp this fact could not be ignored in color management therefore to have the same gamut in color management and printing side, M1 method should be used ( but during the new standard announcement the effect of M1 measurement was not known so much) to eliminate UV metamerism and have the desired color gamut.