Following Guidelines

Puch

Well-known member
Since the virus is so much smaller than the minuscule holes on the mask, the guidelines can be considered a misdirection. On the other hand, it's very interesting that other proven protective measures are never promoted. I mean eating healthy food, pumping up your immune system and doing some physical exercise each and every day. I never hear/read these ideas in the mainstream.
 
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Slammer

Well-known member
Since the virus is so much smaller than the minuscule holes on the mask, the guidelines can be considered a misdirection. On the other hand, it's very interesting that other proven protective measures are never promoted. I mean eating healthy food, pumping up your immune system and doing some physical exercise each and every day. I never hear/read these ideas in the mainstream.
The virus may be minute but you are not just blowing out a dusty likkle virus all on it´s onesies, it is suspended in a aerosol liquid substrate, read: a sneeze or a cough, and a mask is extremly good at holding your glibber back.
So stop bitching and wear a mask, promoting healthy food and exercise may not be an issue in the US but here in EU-land it is very much so.
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
Since the virus is so much smaller than the minuscule holes on the mask, the guidelines can be considered a misdirection. On the other hand, it's very interesting that other proven protective measures are never promoted. I mean eating healthy food, pumping up your immune system and doing some physical exercise each and every day. I never hear/read these ideas in the mainstream.
I go to the gym 4-7 times a week, and exercise daily outside of that, and it's amazing how much better it makes you feel in terms of total energy (besides strengthening your muscles). Not eating Doritos and drinking soda all day is going to REALLY improve how you feel every day. Yes, doing these things, in conjunction with a mask, will help you increase your immune system's protective measures.
 

gordo

Well-known member
Well, the CDC says masks do not work.
This 14 minute video (Dr Pamela Popper) on the topic is worth a view.


There is a review of Dr. Fauci’s decisions and behaviors re: COVID-19. Copies were sent to the White House, The President and the Vice President, Fauci’s alma mater Cornell University and the media. (Masks are on page 14 of 36) You can find it here: http://pvsheridan.com/sheridan2fauci-1-21july2020.pdf
 
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gordo

Well-known member
@gordo , do you happen to have a link to the article(s) she's reading from the CDC website?
I don't know the specific source of her quote, however if you go here:
You'll read:
"In this review, we did not find evidence to support a protective effect of personal protective measures or environmental measures in reducing influenza transmission. Although these measures have mechanistic support based on our knowledge of how influenza is transmitted from person to person, randomized trials of hand hygiene and face masks have not demonstrated protection against laboratory-confirmed influenza, with 1 exception (18)."

"We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2)."

On a sidebar, when reading current official documents regarding the use of face masks be on the look out for "weasel" words like "may" "might" "help". Weasel words are used to imply an affirmation of efficacy when an affirmation is not or cannot actually be made. For that reason, weasel words are commonly used in advertising and in vendor product claims. For more info on weasel words go here: Marketing 101 - "Weasel" words
 

truehue

Active member
The cartoon is silly, and on point. I don't know anything about the woman in the video.
I copied the info below from the CDC website. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Wear masks in public settings when around people not living in your household and particularly where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain, such as grocery stores, pharmacies, and gas stations. Masks may slow the spread of the virus and help people who may have the virus and do not know it from transmitting it to others.

COVID-19 can be spread by people who do not have symptoms and do not know that they are infected. That’s why it’s important for everyone to practice social distancing (staying at least 6 feet away from other people) and wear masks in public settings. Masks provide an extra layer to help prevent the respiratory droplets from traveling in the air and onto other people.
 

gordo

Well-known member
Read my post that's just before yours. That is from the CDC and is research based. What you posted IMHO is CDC guidance based on politics. Which is why it includes weasel words (Masks may slow the spread of the virus, help prevent) while the science based article does not.
 
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Bill W

Well-known member
In reading the article I find this sentence under face masks that makes me wonder how valid the conclusion of the author is about the non effectiveness of wearing a face mask as a way to protect one for other's germs based on the studies: "Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group." Also this sentence under the Hand Hygiene section: "Some studies reported being underpowered because of limited sample size, and low adherence to hand hygiene interventions was observed in some studies." Being the husband of a Nurse Practitioner, who was also an ICU nurse before becoming an NP, I tend to have more faith in what she had learned from her 20+ years as an NP of taking care of patients, and, I wear a face mask and practice hand hygiene. My wife is immune compromised so wearing a mask and hand hygiene is not a big sacrifice for me even if there are those that believe this practice is not effective in helping protect me from COVID. I also exercise regularly, eat no red meat (since 1978) and very little meat at all since, along with good sleep habits. Hopefully at my advanced age (almost 70 - ha, ha) these precautions will allow me to be around when this COVID stuff is over and I can once again enjoy the company of my sibling who live on the other US coast, and, my grandchildren. AND, of course still be able to enjoy the posting of Gordo even though my interest in Print Plant is now more of a watcher than a contributor as I retired 3 years ago from the printing industry, specifically color management. Health to all and remember to insure you do not get COVID, only breathe out, not in.
 

Slammer

Well-known member
Well, the CDC says masks do not work.
This 14 minute video (Dr Pamela Popper) on the topic is worth a view.


There is a review of Dr. Fauci’s decisions and behaviors re: COVID-19. Copies were sent to the White House, The President and the Vice President, Fauci’s alma mater Cornell University and the media. (Masks are on page 14 of 36) You can find it here: http://pvsheridan.com/sheridan2fauci-1-21july2020.pdf
Your Dr. Pamela Popper is a so-called "naturopath" with focus on alternative and folk medicine and not evidence based medicine. In short she is doing nothing more than peddling ju ju and I would not trust what she has to say. Apart from that the video seems to be ancient and from that far gone time where Corona was a new and scary and governments were still trying to determin the best course of action.
 
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alibryan

Well-known member
FFBFA90A-5022-460C-B201-C6248D203778.jpeg

48F7409F-4CE1-4302-8D5D-A3F3BFA2CF9B.jpeg


This woman appears to in fact be the same person, and from the looks of her in the OP, may be very confused and undecided about what’s actually what.
 

Joe

Well-known member
More evidence of the benefits of a mask are emerging every day. Simply they prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the mask coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. And that is good enough reason for me.


Evidence for Effectiveness of Masks

Masks are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the mask coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of masks is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.
 

OffsetStorefront

Well-known member
I don't know the specific source of her quote, however if you go here:
You'll read:
"In this review, we did not find evidence to support a protective effect of personal protective measures or environmental measures in reducing influenza transmission. Although these measures have mechanistic support based on our knowledge of how influenza is transmitted from person to person, randomized trials of hand hygiene and face masks have not demonstrated protection against laboratory-confirmed influenza, with 1 exception (18)."

"We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2)."

On a sidebar, when reading current official documents regarding the use of face masks be on the look out for "weasel" words like "may" "might" "help". Weasel words are used to imply an affirmation of efficacy when an affirmation is not or cannot actually be made. For that reason, weasel words are commonly used in advertising and in vendor product claims. For more info on weasel words go here: Marketing 101 - "Weasel" words
Why you citing studies about influenza? Are you talking about mask's effectiveness in source control or in personal protection? Weasel words should be expected when health organizations are publishing guidance about novel diseases, where we're learning about them in parallel with trying to protect against them. It takes time for scientific consensus to build which is preferred before making definitive statements.
 

gordo

Well-known member
Why you citing studies about influenza? Are you talking about mask's effectiveness in source control or in personal protection?
Because both are viruses and while the impact on human health of the Covid 19 virus and the seasonal influenza virus may differ - when it comes to face mask protection, they are the same because it is the size of the virus that you are trying to block that's the important thing. That's why medical face masks are classified according the the micron size of particles they block (for consumers, size is described with terms like dust, mold, smoke particles which people can relate to more easily than microns size.

Here's the link to a current news report about what's happening in Holland which references the effectiveness of face masks: Holland's scientists say there's no solid evidence face coverings work

A few bits from the report:

"The nation's [Holland's} top scientists, having examined key data and research, have declared there is no firm evidence to back the use of face coverings. Indeed, they argue that wearing the wretched things may actually hamper the fight against disease."

'Face masks in public places are not necessary, based on all the current evidence,' said Coen Berends, spokesman for the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment. 'There is no benefit and there may even be negative impact.'

"The World Health Organization has also been sceptical, warning that 'widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not yet supported by high-quality or direct scientific evidence'."

Hand sanitation and social distancing are the most effective ways to help prevent the spread of viruses. Face masks not so much.
 

Joe

Well-known member
@ Gordo...and in that article it states:

"The one exception outside of the medical frontline has been on public transport, where masks are mandatory on the basis it is difficult to stay apart on crowded buses, ferries and trains. 'We have seen this approach works,' said Christian Hoebe, a professor of infectious diseases in Maastricht and member of the advisory team. 'Face masks should not be seen as a magic bullet that halts the spread."

And the article I posted from the CDC states:

"laboratory studies that shows masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of masks is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain."

They are both saying the same thing.
 

Puch

Well-known member
For me, wearing a mask for more than five minutes is a pain. After a short period when I feel some kind of weariness, I start to feel myself dizzy, and at around 15 minutes into wearing it's a vertigo. How am I supposed to live like this? A line in the local grocery shop's cashier takes ten minutes, sometimes more. Should I pass out standing at the IKEA's mile long queue? Yes, I know, I can order everything transported to my house by Amazon, Tesco etc. Just I don't want to live like this.
 

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