Font-Specific Trap Error

cwillson

Active member
Has anyone else seen anything like this?

A client recently started using a new font in a multitude of projects, and subsequently is driving us nuts.
It consistently produces traps that are misaligned. (see images)
Font is "RozhaOne-Regular.ttf"

Punctuation characters seem especially susceptible, though text can have the same problem, depending on the character. (loopy things, like lower case g, for example)

Working on a MAC
Running Sierra 10.12.6
Prinergy Workshop v. 8.1.2.342

Our solution thus far has been outlining the fonts in our Input PDF. Easy enough to do for one client, but I would love to know what the heck it's all about.

Witchcraft?
Sorcery?
Some deeply embedded code error in the font that causes it to say "I DO WHAT I WANT!!" ??
 

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Dov Isaacs

Well-known member
Assuming that the trapping irregularity appears only when you pass it through the Prinergy code (correct?), maybe the best thing to do is to contact Kodak Support as see what analysis they can do with this.

The problem may be with the TrueType hinting in the font itself, the Prinergy software, or the combination of the two.

The last thing you want to be doing is “outlining text” since that destroys hinting, generally degrades quality, and has other PDF side effects you really want.

- Dov
 

Joe

Well-known member
Yep...Google font or any web font. Freeware fonts too. Prinergy does not work well with any of those types of fonts.
 

Dov Isaacs

Well-known member
Yep...Google font or any web font. Freeware fonts too. Prinergy does not work well with any of those types of fonts.

Hopefully you have reported this to Kodak. When you say “web font” what you are really saying in this context is TrueType fonts. It sounds like Prinergy may have problems with its proprietary trapping and the hinting in some TrueType fonts.

- Dov
 

Joe

Well-known member
Usually I trace it back to either a Google Font or a freeware font. I say web font because that is usually a Google font but there are others besides Google. Also some Microsoft fonts like the ones included with Windows/Office. One sure fire fail is Roboto. With freeware fonts many times the file will fail processing in the trapper with the error that the font does not have a license to either embed or outline the font. Prinergy does not actually embed or outline any fonts in the trapper but it has to be able to perform those functions to create the trap. And yes they have been reported to Kodak.
 

cwillson

Active member
The files were too large to upload, so I am hoping this WeTransfer link will work. It's about 106 MB.

https://we.tl/t-WYhl0FPyko

I made some test pages. I tried to illustrate the range of content involved in one f the jobs.
Indesign file, Font, 1 link, Input PDF, and the three refined and trapped result pages.

Screen Shot 2019-02-07 at 7.35.31 PM.png


Next I have to find the correct channel for reporting it to Kodak, but in the meantime, poke away guys.
The hinting idea seems like it would be the culprit. (I admit I had to read up on Hinting)
 

Joe

Well-known member
As someone mentioned upthread....RozhaOne is a Google font. Kodak will tell you to tell your customers not to use Google fonts. I ran it through Prinergy 8.2 and got the same results you got. Misaligned traps. Google fonts were made for using on websites. Not in print production.
 

Magnus59

Well-known member
Usually I trace it back to either a Google Font or a freeware font. I say web font because that is usually a Google font but there are others besides Google. Also some Microsoft fonts like the ones included with Windows/Office. One sure fire fail is Roboto. With freeware fonts many times the file will fail processing in the trapper with the error that the font does not have a license to either embed or outline the font. Prinergy does not actually embed or outline any fonts in the trapper but it has to be able to perform those functions to create the trap. And yes they have been reported to Kodak.

Roboto is used in a regular program we do every couple of weeks.
Fails on APPE output every time, only fix I have found is to use CPSI
I haven't tried outlining the font, might try that next issue.
 

Hopkins Printing

Well-known member
I started with your PDF and got the same thing you did (it appears the PDF files are pre-trapped). So...

I made a new PDF of page 1 from your InDesign file and did not convert the spot colors to process. Here is what I got in my Apogee system with our standard trap settings:
 

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scotts

Well-known member
Trying not to take over the thread. But seeing someone else post about Roboto, reminds me about the Release Notes for Prinergy where it references it in quite a few versions. And then checking on Kodak's Partner Portal, I found a link to this article. https://typographica.org/on-typography/roboto-typeface-is-a-four-headed-frankenstein/ An interesting read. And being in typesetting for a while before getting into prepress, I learned a thing or two about fonts (not by choice either). And my feel on some of these new fonts coming out today, is that the designers are quick to get something out, even if it isn't perfected or gone over by a learned colleague, which causes quite a bit of the issues. Some of the fonts, just don't have the spit and polish of the old fonts, where we might get an update to a font in like 2 years...maybe or not. With today's fonts, we are constantly getting updates, which causes it's own problems.
 

cwillson

Active member
I started with your PDF and got the same thing you did (it appears the PDF files are pre-trapped). So...

I made a new PDF of page 1 from your InDesign file and did not convert the spot colors to process. Here is what I got in my Apogee system with our standard trap settings:

Looks like Apogee doesn't muck it up like Prinergy.
The PDFs with the "p1, p2, p3" are the trapped files from Prinergy, (and converted to 4c.)
The "00-RozhaOne_TEST Pages.pdf" is the input file and isn't trapped or converted.
 

zulbat

Member
I noticed when working in Prinergy for several years that the updates were giving different (Bad) trapping results. We found the centers of "O"s and "A"s were not trapping as expected (no trap at all). This may be rumor but at one point the trapping engine for Prinergy license was lost and Kodak had to rebuild from the ground up. I don't work in Prinergy any longer and don't miss the headaches we encountered with trapping in their software.
 

marktonk

Well-known member
I noticed when working in Prinergy for several years that the updates were giving different (Bad) trapping results. We found the centers of "O"s and "A"s were not trapping as expected (no trap at all). This may be rumor but at one point the trapping engine for Prinergy license was lost and Kodak had to rebuild from the ground up. I don't work in Prinergy any longer and don't miss the headaches we encountered with trapping in their software.
Actually, this is true. Heidelberg co programed Prinergy with Creo. The trapping engine was one of the many programs that were Heidelberg’s. Creo ended up buying Scitex, which was a direct competitor of Heidelberg Prepress. The joint venture was dissolved and Heidelberg started to work on a new workflow. Mind you we still had Signa Station, MetaDimension, Supertrap (this was a standalone version of our trapping engine in Prinergy, it was an Acrobat plug in and won a GATF Intertech award). In 2003, we launch Printready , which evolved into the present day Prepress Manager. After a certain amount of time, Prinergy was no longer allowed to license the Heidelberg programs, one being the trapping engine. At that time, Kodak had bought Creo and had to develop their own trapping engine. If you look at Prepress Manager, most of the sw is Heidelberg coded programs. As another example, the preflight engine is ours and has been around in one form or another prior to 2003. By the way, we are currently on Version 21.

Best,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg Prinect Sales Specialist
 
Have you thought about getting a PDF editor like Hybrid Software PACKZ? I recreated your file and trapped it. The results are great in PACKZ.

Screen Shot 2021-02-16 at 8.41.13 PM.png
 

Magnus59

Well-known member
Actually, this is true. Heidelberg co programed Prinergy with Creo. The trapping engine was one of the many programs that were Heidelberg’s. Creo ended up buying Scitex, which was a direct competitor of Heidelberg Prepress. The joint venture was dissolved and Heidelberg started to work on a new workflow. Mind you we still had Signa Station, MetaDimension, Supertrap (this was a standalone version of our trapping engine in Prinergy, it was an Acrobat plug in and won a GATF Intertech award). In 2003, we launch Printready , which evolved into the present day Prepress Manager. After a certain amount of time, Prinergy was no longer allowed to license the Heidelberg programs, one being the trapping engine. At that time, Kodak had bought Creo and had to develop their own trapping engine. If you look at Prepress Manager, most of the sw is Heidelberg coded programs. As another example, the preflight engine is ours and has been around in one form or another prior to 2003. By the way, we are currently on Version 21.

Best,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg Prinect Sales Specialist
This begs the question, since Creo now owned Scitex, why wouldn't they utilise the code in Full Auto Frames instead of re-inventing the wheel?
 

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