Getting PDFs to play well with ArtPro

[Munsell]

This is a huge problem I've seen in both of my recent jobs. More at my previous job where most of the files we processed were PDFs. Although one job was a narrow web label printer, and my current one is at a sheetfed offset packaging printer, they both have a common thread. Artpro.

I really love Artpro, and think its great for the production environment. In both situations, we recieve files from a seperator or directly from the client. They then import the PDF into Artpro, do the prep work (trap, fix, apply dies/CAD, color correct images etc). They then ouptut to a proofer/rip either through Appletalk printers, or saving a postscript to hotfolders.

At the beginning, both printers were requesting PDF/X-1a. What I've quickly found with X-1a is, depending on the file, Artpro creates hundreds to thousands of Tiffs on import. A lot of times it is so bad, we cant even use the file. I usually see this when the file has heavy use of transparencies (drop shadows, blends, viginettes etc). I've usually alleviated this problem by coming up with my own set of standards for PDF submission. This usually involves PDF 1.6 or higher, embedded fonts, no downsampling, embedded images.

I'm not sure if any specific program is more guilty of bad PDF/X-1a files than another. We seem to have more problems with Quark, but InDesign also has a bad track record.

So, those of you who are importing PDFs in to Artpro, what specifications are you using? Do you also have problems with X-1a? I've recently become aware of the Ghent PDF Workgroup and plan on exploring their offerings. Any other suggestions?

 

[Patcbx]

Getting PDFs to play well with ArtPro

The customized PDF (1.6, no downsampling, etc.), is the route we have gone as well (Nexus workflow). Occasionally we lose a workflow-created replacement tiff, but that is a small price to pay for bringing in files made by designers who no nothing about optimizing for print production.

Pat Peterson
Color-Box

 

[Talking Tech]

Highest quality PDF export settings out of Illustrator and InDesign. Use the newest PDF version available, preserve the layers, absolutely no flattening / downsampling, NO PDF/X, and ideally turn of font subsetting, though not necessary.

 

[mattbeals]

Why is PDF/X bad??

 

[Munsell]

Why is PDF/X bad??

Like I explained above, PDF/X-1a at least is bad. Depending on the source file, a PDF/X-1a imported into artpro can create thousands of tiffs. I'm assuming its transparency problems because X-1a specs PDF 1.3 or 1.4 (I don't remember). What usually happens is drop shadows and other transparent vector objects get impprted into artpro as tiffs that are about 1 pixel high and as wide as the transparent object. This can become a huge problem when working with the file.

I've had moderate success with X-3 and higher versions of PDF/X, but haven't done any extensive testing. I was really wondering if anyone was using one of the defined PDF/X specs, or something from Ghent. I'll be testing the specs from Ghent, specifically the Packaging Specifications. My goal is to point customers and separators to a pre-defined spec they can find easily, that has been tested, and they can load into whatever software they are using to make PDFs. Obviously, the goal is a good quality PDF that will import into Artpro with no problems. The Ghent Workgroup really seems to be the solution. I'll post any results I get in this thread as time goes on.

 

[madmac]

Its not ArtPro but the Adobe Preset

Its not ArtPro but the Adobe Preset

Hi,

Your issue is not ArtPro creating the tiffs but in fact when you create a PDF/X-1a and above the Adobe transparencies aren't supported and so the file gets flattened. It is this flatten which crops the file up creates new images as well. At worst I've seen about 1600 tiffs created.

In fact if you want to check this then if you have either Neo or Pitstop then open the pdf and view the outlines.

So mattbeals it isn't that PDF/X-? is bad just not the correct or best option to save the file before importing into ArtPro or a number other other apps. In fact if you have a PDF native rip then you are best advised not to flatten the pdf files full stop as this can cause issues when ripped.

One common issue is to seen thin lines around the areas of these images miss-registration if you like.

The other major pain is the file sizes that flattening creates. This is because the images should be rendered at a resolution close or equal to that of your rip.

One final note if you need to supply the file onto a printer who can't handle PDF version above 1.4 or Acrobat 5 then you can create a flattened pdf from ArtPro.

The main key is how to make a good clean pdf in the first place as ArtPro only extracts that date which the creating application has made. Illustrator CS5 been far better than CS3 and earlier.

As for settings start by selecting High Quality but no Press Quality (Press Quality enable Color Management which at this stage is best left off). Then I would set the PDF version to at least Pdf 1.5 so that layers are supported. As for images in most cases I us image down sampling as this is the first stage where we can optimise the images sizes used so as to improve output files sizes. However don't down sample your Bitmap images. Font sub setting leave at 100% there is no need to set to 0 and embed all the font data. One other thing turn off Illustrator compatibility unless you are sending these settings to your customer. You have the Illustrator ai file so don't need it including in the PDF which is just for importing into ArtPro.

One final thing you can save these settings as a preset and then export them out to send to your customer.

Hope this information helps.

 

[mattbeals]

madmac; there is more than one level of PDF/X compliance. PDF/X-4 supports live transparency. So maybe saving a PDF/X-4 file (or any PDF 1.4 or higher) will "help". So from the sounds of it since transparency is supported (no atomic regions), files are smaller (no rasterization of transparencies) then it might just work. Plus with the output intent of PDF/X you know, and maybe even Art Pro, what the color space of the document is intended to be. And then as you said if the recipient can't handle PDF v1.4 (for whatever reason) then you can export a flattened PDF. Sounds "easy"...

 

[Doh]

Free EA Data Exchange Plug-in

Free EA Data Exchange Plug-in

Hi,

Why not just use the free Data Exchange Plug-in. It is made to exchange data between Illustrator and the Esko Suite of software. Creates Normalized PDFs in addition to old EPF.

esko.com - Downloads - Free Software (lost my stupid clipboard)

Regards,
/Doh

 

[Toweri]

Do not, I repeat, Do Not flatten

Do not, I repeat, Do Not flatten

I Concur: Whatever you do, do not flatten. PDF 1.4 allows ArtPro to import any and all transparencies into Artpro fuctionality. Only a handful of Tiffs are generated. Plus the entire job is still 100% editable. Everywhere.

Flatten to PDF 1.3 means you are stuck with hundreds of tiny Tiffs. You also have burnt all the bridges behind you, lost most of the editing capabilities - and generally generated yourself an enormous pain in the (insert a body part here - you know what I mean...)

My "record" from old times is 11 000+ Tiffs on a single ArtPro job...

If a flattened PDF is required afterwards, you can always export one from ArtPro and be confident it is what you'll print afterwards. And you still retain 100% editability within your ArtPro document. You can even simulate opaque inks - notwithstanding Acrobat/Adobe Reader cannot display such a thing. With Artpro-exported PDF, they can.