Global warming - the other side of the argument

[gordo]

Very interesting article here with many links to the deniers:
Report: Democrats Refuse to Allow Skeptic to Testify Alongside Gore At Congressional Hearing | Climate Depot

 

[GregNac19]

Very interesting article here with many links to the deniers:
Report: Democrats Refuse to Allow Skeptic to Testify Alongside Gore At Congressional Hearing | Climate Depot

It's all a big pay day for Al Gore. Where do you think "Carbon Footprint" came from?

 

[Mark Flanders]

HIya fellow printers,

Are you guys seriously suggesting that climate change isn't real?!

(all due respect, of course)

The basic reason to deny climate change is that it's going to cost industry money to reduce emissions. Why pretend to be scientific? The "opposing" argument is simple: "I don't want to pay to change, so I'm going to pretend it isn't real." or perhaps: "I'm making money now with old dirty tech, so to heck with the planet." On the other hand, if one has an open mind about the future of industry, there are opportunities in this challenge. I can make duotones the old fashioned way, and was a journey level film stripper, but who cares anymore? I didn't run around claiming that CTP was inferior, I got with the program. Don't be a denier. It makes us look slow in the head. :>

all the best,

Mark

 

[GregNac19]

HIya fellow printers,

Are you guys seriously suggesting that climate change isn't real?!

(all due respect, of course)

The basic reason to deny climate change is that it's going to cost industry money to reduce emissions. Why pretend to be scientific? The "opposing" argument is simple: "I don't want to pay to change, so I'm going to pretend it isn't real." or perhaps: "I'm making money now with old dirty tech, so to heck with the planet." On the other hand, if one has an open mind about the future of industry, there are opportunities in this challenge. I can make duotones the old fashioned way, and was a journey level film stripper, but who cares anymore? I didn't run around claiming that CTP was inferior, I got with the program. Don't be a denier. It makes us look slow in the head. :>

all the best,

Mark

Just an idea for you. Research what happened earlier this year at four weather stations around the globe measuring global warming. The temperature actually went DOWN! 1 full degree in one year. This might not sound like much but this how much the has "warmed" over the last few years that global warming was introduced!. These are just the facts. Sorry to burst your bubble.
In the 70's it was global cooling. Now it is global warming. Which is it? I know that we can pollute waters and streams and poison animals, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the creator of this world made this world for us live on. We are tiny specs on this world and if you think that me driving a car will change the worlds temperatures than I think you have subscribed to the biggest myth of all time!
Just because a lot of people believe it, doesn't make it true.

 

[GazKL440]

this will be an interesting thread in which to watch the feathers fly!! My view... if you can point the finger of blame, you can make somebody pay! If you spend enough money, everyone will believe you are right! Proper propaganda will make you ALL believers

But above all, to quote my fav artists.. "Al Gore invented the environment"

 

[otherthoughts]

I for one believe that none of us know for certain what the truth is. I mean, we wouldn't be posting on a PrintPlanet Forum if we were Scientists who were able to sort things out firsthand would we?

We rely on hearsay to form the bulk of our opinions don't we?

It all comes down to who we believe most and why we believe them. Being a skeptic myself, I discount the statements proffered by those that seem to have a conflict of interest as best as I can tell. Even this judgment is based on hearsay.

The only things I feel I know for sure are those things I have learned firsthand. After that comes the things I have heard from close personal friends that I feel I can trust. As it stands now, for me personally, Scientists come before Politicians, including Al Gore. Still this is no guarantee, Scientists have been wrong in the past. However it is my opinion that Politicians, having the greater power, should lie to us more often than Scientists do, when taken on the whole.

Photographic evidence of melting Glaciers is better than plain talk, but photos can be manipulated too, as we all know.

I think that it is discussions just like this, sharing our points of view and reasoning that serves us best. Although slapping each other with a large trout is fun once in a while

Another great thing about this Forum is that it is Multi-National in nature. I for one can attest to the fact that the main-stream-media that I am presented with contains very limited international content.

Regards
Otherthoughts

 

[gordo]

Here here otherthoughts.

The climate changes, that's a fact.
What is not known are what are the changes and what are the cause(s).
We should be doing the right thing environment-wise, policy-wise - not to stop global warming or cooling - but because we live on a planet that has finite resources to consume and finite means to transform waste.
We are like goldfish in a bowl - but with an ability to develop an environmental balance rather than succumbing to the effects of consuming all our resources or the pollution we generate.
Most of us have control over the choices we make as individuals, and that's about it. Hopefully we individually take advantage of that ability.

gordo

 

[rbailleu]

Until we tax the heck out of imports from countries with environmental standards less than our own. like mexico, china,india, pakistan. I fail to see how a cap and tax system will help anything. china and india and pakistan have over 2 billion people. It is naive to think that america can solve the worlds problem with pollution and should go further when others won't meet our standards. air quality has been improving in the us for the last 2 decades. Cap and tax will improve things only by putting more american companies out of business. remember the chinese olympics. athletes with masks. and that was after they shut down factories for weeks before the olympics.

dont get me wrong I like clean air and think we should improve the air quality. but if you are going to force this on american companies then you should force it on imports.

also the reports I heard last week is that antartic ice was growing.

 

[Mark Flanders]

Greetings,

Good comments all. Just a couple of fairly indisputable facts to spice it up:

1) If you run your car in your garage with the door closed, you will die.
2) There are 671 million registered cars and trucks in the world.
(Wards Motor Vehicle Facts and Figures)

I don't need to be a scientist to know that we need to shift gears here.
--
And a few Bible quotes for those who like to quote Genesis 1:28

Jer. 2:7. I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and you made my inheritance detestable.

Luke 16:2,10,13. And He called him and said to him, "What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward. He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous in much.

all the best,

mf.

 

[kaiserwilhelm]

My response to global warming is I think it is treated very much the same as cap pun. Look at Amnesty International. How much of their dollars are used to fight against the 100 executions in the US a year vs how much is spent fighting against the millions of detestable acts that occur in the non western world?
Same goes with global warming. China is putting in a new coal fired plant how many times a week? Look it up. It will astonish you. (400 coal plants build in 4 years from 02 to 06)
But let the US attempt to even build one new coal fired plant and we have "die ins" with nutjobs lying on the ground in front of bull dozers.
Let me ask you this (in my non- scientific way). One hundred years ago when Billy the scientist went out at the equator and took the temperature, how accurate do you think his measurements were? What about the guy in Kalamazoo who did the same thing? The instruments weren't accurate to the decimal point, much less to the 1000th degree as we have today.
So, let's say that Billy was off a degree here and a degree there. Do you not see how the first 50 years worth of data is pretty much flawed? How can it not be?
Tell you what. Let's add up the carbon emissions from China and put them versus the US. How about we put our resources fighting pollution based upon those numbers?

 

[rbailleu]

My response to global warming is I think it is treated very much the same as cap pun. Look at Amnesty International. How much of their dollars are used to fight against the 100 executions in the US a year vs how much is spent fighting against the millions of detestable acts that occur in the non western world?
Same goes with global warming. China is putting in a new coal fired plant how many times a week? Look it up. It will astonish you. (400 coal plants build in 4 years from 02 to 06)
But let the US attempt to even build one new coal fired plant and we have "die ins" with nutjobs lying on the ground in front of bull dozers.
Let me ask you this (in my non- scientific way). One hundred years ago when Billy the scientist went out at the equator and took the temperature, how accurate do you think his measurements were? What about the guy in Kalamazoo who did the same thing? The instruments weren't accurate to the decimal point, much less to the 1000th degree as we have today.
So, let's say that Billy was off a degree here and a degree there. Do you not see how the first 50 years worth of data is pretty much flawed? How can it not be?
Tell you what. Let's add up the carbon emissions from China and put them versus the US. How about we put our resources fighting pollution based upon those numbers?

a good christian amen.


but I continue. on top of poor measurement standards they use proxy data stored in the artic and glacial Ice. how accurate is that. well I will tell you in 1000 years.

you know there are no plants in your garage. Its the CO that kills you not the CO2 or the SO2

of course I have no issue with pushing higher effiency. I do that every day in my shop.

but why impose an ineffiecent system of tax on the us only when we are only 4% of the worlds population. china and india 33% of the worlds population when will they step up. after all china is still growing at 10% in this down turn. maybe they should put up some wind towers and drive hybrid cars.

 

[rbailleu]

Greetings,

Good comments all. Just a couple of fairly indisputable facts to spice it up:

1) If you run your car in your garage with the door closed, you will die.
2) There are 671 million registered cars and trucks in the world.
(Wards Motor Vehicle Facts and Figures)

I don't need to be a scientist to know that we need to shift gears here.
--
And a few Bible quotes for those who like to quote Genesis 1:28

Jer. 2:7. I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and you made my inheritance detestable.

Luke 16:2,10,13. And He called him and said to him, "What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward. He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous in much.

all the best,

mf.

its a good thing they dont read the bible in india, pakistan and china.

 

[rbailleu]

I wonder if I can trade the carbon offsets from growing grass in my yard. seems to me that is carbon sequestration. Do I get a credit for recycling? or do I only get taxed. who decides what my cap is. If I get bigger to I get a bigger cap. are small companies exempt.

 

[rbailleu]

Greetings,

Good comments all. Just a couple of fairly indisputable facts to spice it up:

1) If you run your car in your garage with the door closed, you will die.
2) There are 671 million registered cars and trucks in the world.
(Wards Motor Vehicle Facts and Figures)

I don't need to be a scientist to know that we need to shift gears here.
--
And a few Bible quotes for those who like to quote Genesis 1:28

Jer. 2:7. I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and you made my inheritance detestable.

Luke 16:2,10,13. And He called him and said to him, "What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward. He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous in much.

all the best,

mf.

good thing china india and pakistan don't read the bible regularly.

 

[otherthoughts]

1) If you run your car in your garage with the door closed, you will die.

I think Mark may be onto something here

What if legislation was passed making it mandatory to reroute our exhaust systems into our own passenger compartments? Just to acquaint us with our own personal touch?

I get the feeling, whether it be CO2, CO, SO2 or NOx. The demand for Low Emission Vehicles might spike markedly?

Of course I'm just teasing, but the mental image I conjured up...

Commuters sitting in traffic, sporting WW-II gas masks, driving with every window rolled down and their head's leaning out into the wind like our Dog's often do. Inclement weather and all, cursing the "Rat Bastage" Politicians all the way!
​

Sorry! I couldn't help myself
Otherthoughts

 

[rbailleu]

wow all my post finally showed up. sorry

 

[Mark Flanders]

Hi again,

You guys are hopeless. I give up. (smile)
--
A couple more tidbits, however...

Carbon Emissions by country in 2004: US: 22% China/Taiwan: 18% Europe: 14%. etc.

China will overtake the US around 2012, but the "blame the Chinese so we don't have to do anything" argument is a poor one. We should lead.

Also, Amnesty Intnl. spends FAR more of it's resources on the middle east, asia, africa and south america than it does in the US.
--
later,

mf.

 

[JaimeZ]

Hi again,

You guys are hopeless. I give up. (smile)
--
A couple more tidbits, however...

Carbon Emissions by country in 2004: US: 22% China/Taiwan: 18% Europe: 14%. etc.

China will overtake the US around 2012, but the "blame the Chinese so we don't have to do anything" argument is a poor one. We should lead.

Also, Amnesty Intnl. spends FAR more of it's resources on the middle east, asia, africa and south america than it does in the US.
--
later,

mf.

Once again a global warming "cool aide" drinker (smile). Blame human kind for CO2, it just shows the arrogance some have over what man can do. How about the amount of CO2 produced by the oceans and volcanic eruptions? What man produces pales in comparison to what these two nature juggernauts produce. And of course, let us not forget plants!

And as some have already echoed we are to be responsible for making sure we keep our home, Earth, clean. Just like those great Bible versus say, God expects and demands us to take care of what His created and given us to use.

And taxes....argh!!! let me not get started!

 

[Mark Flanders]

Hah!

You don't even know how to spell Kool Aid!

:>

mf.

 

[JaimeZ]

You're right I can't spell Kool Aid, but if that's all you can bring up about the facts stated in my post, I made my point.