Going Backward? [slight rant]

[Tech]

I respect the different perspectives here. That said, I think we can agree to disagree. There is a complete disconnect between upstream designers and prepress folks regarding who's responsible for what.

"Take pride in what you do", that has nothing to do with getting things done and off your desk. For every designer/art director that can ACTUALLY setup their files correct every time and not neglect details that will cause problems downstream, I can find you 10 [much higher if you work with jr. designers] that can't.

Last time I look, I can't even find a vocational school that teaches "prepress" and the latest practices. There is a reasons why design schools don't offer such classes. 1) It is just NOT marketable or a good selling point for any school. Do any of you think design students wants to paid for such classes when they don't even think it's their responsibility? 2) Creativity is harder to teach and more valued in most developed countries. Do anyone see mass wanted ads for prepress? No? But you do see those ads for designers...and for every designer job, there are hundreds of applicants. One can argue they won't hire designers without prepress/production skills, and yet, there will be times when CREATIVITY [one's portfolio] will overshadow everything else...just something to think about.

IF we flashback to the days when the creative process were all done by hand...then I would completely agree designers had to know every aspects of what they do.

 

[mojoprime]

i think what we're saying here is that the students shouldn't have a choice. it's should be part of the curriculum like the typography classes are. that way, they learn the basics as part of their degree. i mean, even the basics would be better than the zero that most of these kids get now. on the designer's forum, we try to steer the noobs to get an internship or weekend job at a printshop, just so they can be familiar with some of the terminology.

the other thing is that it's great if these guys have an awesome portfolio, but just because something printed ok on a laser or inkjet printer, doesn't mean it will come out fine on a press. i see a lot of "web 2.0" stuff for print, and i have to tell these guys that some of it just won't work like they have planned. and then logos that end up a external signage? that's even worse. overlapping paths, strokes, you name it. nifty logos with files that won't work on a plotter.

and by the way, i see ads for prepress all the time. not so much now, but then, i don't see ads for designers much now either. hopefully the economic situation will improve worldwide, and we'll see a resurgence in our field.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

@Tech not sure what we agree to disagree about. We need to communicate, and I ALWAYS say to a designer if he is unsure contact the next person down the line and ALWAYS leave contact information. The problem is when there is a design chain.

The problem is not teaching at design schools, the problem is making students understand the importance of what is taught (yes there are some teachers who teach what they don't understand and that doesnt help). I have taught at higher ed, at university level, advertising firms and held seminars about prepress and printing. The difficulty is that as long as they learn of the problems on screen it is still abstract.

You can show students once a month about how to handle black and rich black, and keep churning out articles in design magazines bimonthly and still you will find that nothing helps (probably because they were working in RGB mode in illy to start off with ;p )

It is very hard to learn from others mistakes. And it is important as a teacher to give students project so that they will make those mistakes, but also to teach them how they could have forecast the problems.

There are great books but many are too basic and some for too deep. I mean I looked at Taz photoshop prepress at lynda.com and can't say I agree with all his methods…*so added to all the problems is the issue of there are different ways to get good results and we will find disagreement on what is the correct way.