Goodbye to MAN Roland

[Deleted member 16349]

if you have been flogging your "idea" for 16 years and don't have any traction don't call everyone else stupid, maybe it is time to take a hard look in the mirror.

Time will tell who has not understood the process and the market will decide the value.

I don't want to look into the mirror and risk the chance of breakage and an added seven more years of bad luck.

I didn't call people stupid. I called them ignorant.

Stupidity and ignorance are two different things. Ignorance is something that can be removed from people with proof and education but stupidity is some thing some people have and no matter what you do, you can't take it away from them.

 

[gordo]

I didn't call people stupid. I called them ignorant.

Stupidity and ignorance are two different things. Ignorance is something that can be removed from people with proof and education but stupidity is some thing some people have and no matter what you do, you can't take it away from them.

As one of the few (only?) engineers that post here, I am so glad that you haven't given up posting.

Quality In Print: Some things I learned from engineers (that printshop folks might find useful)

best gordo

 

[lfelton]

As one of the few (only?) engineers that post here, I am so glad that you haven't given up posting.

Quality In Print: Some things I learned from engineers (that printshop folks might find useful)

best gordo

Thanks for posting that Gordo. It's what I tell my production guys week after week, so I've printed it off (and made a small donation) in the hope that hearing the same message from someone else will help drum it in.

Don't get me started on the poor level of training and soft skills in this industry. When we hire someone from the print industry, without exception we have to go back to basics and teach them basic "working" skills, like how to use a day book.

 

[Armya Inc]

Time will tell who has not understood the process and the market will decide the value.

I don't want to look into the mirror and risk the chance of breakage and an added seven more years of bad luck.

I didn't call people stupid. I called them ignorant.

Stupidity and ignorance are two different things. Ignorance is something that can be removed from people with proof and education but stupidity is some thing some people have and no matter what you do, you can't take it away from them.

Erik, I understand what you are saying . I would like to see more posts from you.


Steve Jobs, chief executive officer and co-founder of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, urged you to pursue your dreams and see the opportunities in life’s setbacks


Stay hungry, stay foolish.
Steve Job's Speech in Stanford Ceremony

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Wrath !

Wrath !

Erik,

See what happens when you have the Temerity to improve on - " Deus ex Machina"



Regards, Alois

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

Time will tell who has not understood the process and the market will decide the value.

I don't want to look into the mirror and risk the chance of breakage and an added seven more years of bad luck.

I didn't call people stupid. I called them ignorant.

Stupidity and ignorance are two different things. Ignorance is something that can be removed from people with proof and education but stupidity is some thing some people have and no matter what you do, you can't take it away from them.

And who is the arbiter of who is stupid and who is not... you? I am ready to be educated show us some data that you can shave even 5 sheets off of a makeready with you "idea", it has been my experience that the people whom resort to calling others ignorant or stupid for not listening to their ideas are often insecure or un-informed. Many of us can recount many examples of the 17 year old kid catching on a folder lamenting about how he could run the company better then the boss man...

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Erik, I understand what you are saying . I would like to see more posts from you.


Steve Jobs, chief executive officer and co-founder of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, urged you to pursue your dreams and see the opportunities in life’s setbacks


Stay hungry, stay foolish.
Steve Job's Speech in Stanford Ceremony

Farshad, thanks for the comments.

My goals are not to teach but to make a change. If I can eventually provide a public demonstration of something new and better, that will be the best outcome. If not, then no amount of discussion will convince some people. That is why I do not post too often any more and if I do, I will also not defend my views too much.

Trying to win an argument on a forum is of no interest to me any more. I am interested in making some practical improvements and if I have some success with that, I will let you know.

History is full of people who have no vision or skill in understanding what is possible. They have usually been proven wrong when the impossible has been shown to be possible. Their views turn out to be foolish in retrospect and are forgotten. Not worth debating.

The effort of trying to make improvements requires that one thinks that there are faults, errors or misunderstandings about an existing process that when found can lead to better approaches to improve performance. It seems like a very negative thing but the more negative things one finds that are valid faults, gives one more opportunities to make improvements. That is why I promote negativity.

Of course if one is really good at finding and understanding faults in a process, one is attacked as being negative instead of being someone who knows of lots of opportunities for making improvements. Just human nature I guess.

Anyhow, I will try to keep going down the path I have chosen and with some luck, in the future some positive results by a third party will be made public. At least that is my goal and I hope it is in the near future.

 

[gordo]

Trying to win an argument on a forum is of no interest to me any more.

But you do so much more.

Erik Nikkanen said...
Critical thinking can be fun but it is not a game. It is the foundation of science. It is THE critical skill.

For those that are willing to learn, your posts offer much more than whether you win an argument or not.

best, gordo

 

[Deleted member 16349]

But you do so much more.



For those that are willing to learn, your posts offer much more than whether you win an argument or not.

best, gordo

Gordon, thanks for the kind comments.

I really am much more interested in working on practical solutions than talking about them.

I would also say that the science I have developed is aimed at engineers and not at the craft printer. It was developed to provide engineers with the analytical tools and knowledge required for them to develop new effective technologies specifically related to colour control on press (ink film control) that will reduce waste, increase quality and increase capacity.

As an engineer, I know how badly this was needed because that type of theoretical knowledge, which leads to predictable development of technology has not been available. In fact, myths were and still are taking the place of valid theory. This situation has often resulted in engineers making poor decisions that result in technologies that do not live up to expectations. This has wasted time and resources.

When I started this work more than 25 years ago, it was mainly aimed at improving a process. A process in a growing market. Now things are quite different. I see this work as being a way to provide survival for some parties with innovation at the expense of other parties in this shrinking market. It is sad but that is the reality. Now knowledge becomes more of a strategic asset and therefore it is not something I discuss too much anymore on forums.

 

[Armya Inc]

Gordon, thanks for the kind comments.

I really am much more interested in working on practical solutions than talking about them.

I would also say that the science I have developed is aimed at engineers and not at the craft printer. It was developed to provide engineers with the analytical tools and knowledge required for them to develop new effective technologies specifically related to colour control on press (ink film control) that will reduce waste, increase quality and increase capacity.

As an engineer, I know how badly this was needed because that type of theoretical knowledge, which leads to predictable development of technology has not been available. In fact, myths were and still are taking the place of valid theory. This situation has often resulted in engineers making poor decisions that result in technologies that do not live up to expectations. This has wasted time and resources.

When I started this work more than 25 years ago, it was mainly aimed at improving a process. A process in a growing market. Now things are quite different. I see this work as being a way to provide survival for some parties with innovation at the expense of other parties in this shrinking market. It is sad but that is the reality. Now knowledge becomes more of a strategic asset and therefore it is not something I discuss too much anymore on forums.

I have no idea about your situation.I hope you have patented your ideas. If you have developed something which is needed by industry, you should get compensated and it shouldn't be kept in secret for a long time. This can be done through proper and trusted channels in order to protect your interests and at the same time help you with investment and other requirement needed for your compensation.
This buddy of mine( Also an Engineer) works for a famous Intellectual Property law firm in North America and Europe. You can tell him you are friend of mine(Farshad). You do not need to provide him with any Technical information or open up at this stage; and he also wouldn't ask you to do so unless you guys sign an NDA.
He can help you with Investors, Lawyers, Claim Charts and etc at no charge.
If you are interested, please send me an email to [email protected], I will take it from there and introduce you guys to each other.

Good Luck.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

This buddy of mine( Also an Engineer) works for a famous Intellectual Property law firm

If you are interested, please send me an email to [email protected], I will take it from there and introduce you guys to each other.

Good Luck.

Thanks for the offer Farshad.

I have patents for what I think is important so I should be OK.

 

[Armya Inc]

Gordon, thanks for the kind comments.

I really am much more interested in working on practical solutions than talking about them.

I would also say that the science I have developed is aimed at engineers and not at the craft printer. It was developed to provide engineers with the analytical tools and knowledge required for them to develop new effective technologies specifically related to colour control on press (ink film control) that will reduce waste, increase quality and increase capacity.

As an engineer, I know how badly this was needed because that type of theoretical knowledge, which leads to predictable development of technology has not been available. In fact, myths were and still are taking the place of valid theory. This situation has often resulted in engineers making poor decisions that result in technologies that do not live up to expectations. This has wasted time and resources.

When I started this work more than 25 years ago, it was mainly aimed at improving a process. A process in a growing market. Now things are quite different. I see this work as being a way to provide survival for some parties with innovation at the expense of other parties in this shrinking market. It is sad but that is the reality. Now knowledge becomes more of a strategic asset and therefore it is not something I discuss too much anymore on forums.

Erik,

How about contacting the following organization. They might be able to help you with your project. As I mentioned, Print Industry needs talented people like you.

Society in Science | Fellowships, Post Doc Program, Science, Engineers, Research Funding


Hope this will help!

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Erik,

How about contacting the following organization. They might be able to help you with your project. As I mentioned, Print Industry needs talented people like you.

Society in Science | Fellowships, Post Doc Program, Science, Engineers, Research Funding


Hope this will help!

Farshad, thanks for the link but what they are doing is aimed at specific group of young scientists and engineers. Seems to be a really good organization but it is not applicable to my situation.

Right now, I have designed my technology for a 40 inch wide press that is running UV inks at a packaging printer. I am just now getting the cost for machining parts. The Canadian printer right now is quite positive and we have also gotten some interest from the press supplier.

If the printer is still positive after all the costs and initial issues are determined, then there is the opportunity to build and test the technology in the press and to use it in production.

Since this has to be considered as an experimental effort, a step by step approach is needed. This would also include refinement of the design as one gets more operational experience. After that the technology can be duplicated for more units on their press at low cost.

A short summary of the purpose of the technology.
It provides consistent and predictable print density that is independent of changes in water, press speed, temperature, etc. This should be particularly beneficial for a packaging printer that does repeat jobs because the historical ink key settings will be more accurate with my technology than using the existing CIP3/4 preset technology.

My main purpose for this particular testing is to demonstrate to the public that the solution to the density control problem in offset presses can be done at low cost and with a rethinking of the problem. The printer has agreed to make the results public and give access to parties such as press manufacturers to the results.

If things go well, a lot of credit must go to the people at this Canadian packaging printer who have shown vision and are willing take risks. Those who support these kinds of new ground breaking efforts are more important that the originators because one can not move forward without them.

When there are positive results, you will hear about it. Unfortunately it will not be on Printplanet or WTT because I have been forbidden to discuss it in detail here and will not in the future.

So for the first time in a long time, things are moving in a interesting direction.

Thanks again for your suggestion.

 

[Al Ferrari]

That's great news Erik, congratulations. Since it is your intention to make the results public and you will observe the restrictions placed on you by Printplanet and WTT, please tell us the rough time frame for some results and the venue in which we can expect them.

Al

 

[Deleted member 16349]

That's great news Erik, congratulations. Since it is your intention to make the results public and you will observe the restrictions placed on you by Printplanet and WTT, please tell us the rough time frame for some results and the venue in which we can expect them.

Al

Thanks Al.

If things work out, I will post where people can get the information.

This is still experimental and even though things should work out, there are always potential problems.

 

[Armya Inc]

Farshad, thanks for the link but what they are doing is aimed at specific group of young scientists and engineers. Seems to be a really good organization but it is not applicable to my situation.

Right now, I have designed my technology for a 40 inch wide press that is running UV inks at a packaging printer. I am just now getting the cost for machining parts. The Canadian printer right now is quite positive and we have also gotten some interest from the press supplier.

If the printer is still positive after all the costs and initial issues are determined, then there is the opportunity to build and test the technology in the press and to use it in production.

Since this has to be considered as an experimental effort, a step by step approach is needed. This would also include refinement of the design as one gets more operational experience. After that the technology can be duplicated for more units on their press at low cost.

A short summary of the purpose of the technology.
It provides consistent and predictable print density that is independent of changes in water, press speed, temperature, etc. This should be particularly beneficial for a packaging printer that does repeat jobs because the historical ink key settings will be more accurate with my technology than using the existing CIP3/4 preset technology.

My main purpose for this particular testing is to demonstrate to the public that the solution to the density control problem in offset presses can be done at low cost and with a rethinking of the problem. The printer has agreed to make the results public and give access to parties such as press manufacturers to the results.

If things go well, a lot of credit must go to the people at this Canadian packaging printer who have shown vision and are willing take risks. Those who support these kinds of new ground breaking efforts are more important that the originators because one can not move forward without them.

When there are positive results, you will hear about it. Unfortunately it will not be on Printplanet or WTT because I have been forbidden to discuss it in detail here and will not in the future.

So for the first time in a long time, things are moving in a interesting direction.

Thanks again for your suggestion.

Erik, As I mentioned, you do not need to discuss the details of your design on this Forum. I am only interested and excited to hear about the progress of your design and the effect of this on the print industry. No worries my friend! life has ups and downs. Insecurity, self-confidence, ignorance and stupidity are relative terms and part of human nature. We can only connect the dots in the past and not in the future.
The most important part is to learn from past finish this strongly no matter how long it will take. I believe and trust you to get the job done and interested to hear more about you. Keep us posted! All the best !

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Sceptical !

Sceptical !

Hello Erik,

Never the less I wish you good luck in your endeavour with ITB and await the results.

Warning: UV Offset Inks are difficult regarding - Ink/Water Balance.


Regards, Alois

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Hello Erik,

Never the less I wish you good luck in your endeavour with ITB and await the results.

Warning: UV Offset Inks are difficult regarding - Ink/Water Balance.


Regards, Alois

Thanks Alois,

Yes, the UV ink issue is important. Most of the previous testing of my technology has been with EB and UV inks so that is not new. Printing with UV helps to demonstrate the potential because it is more difficult to run with conventional technology.

 

[maxon]

Back to the topic, Manroland's web offset division has been bought out by the German Possehl Group, an 8,600-staff, €1.7bn-turnover corporation. The deal will save 1,500 of the 2,200 staff at Augsburg. The takeover by Possehl is seen as a stable offer that will protect the future of the web division, Manroland's most profitable unit.
It seems there will be management buyouts at the sheetfed manufacturing site in Offenbach and the assembly operation in Plauen, with government support.

 

[Francois]

Manroland presses will continue to be built, perhaps under a different name or subcontrcting agreement. We service manroland presses, and will continue to do so to help all our cutomers.

controlgraphicsusa.com