Have you worked on both sides of the divide (press and prepress)?

[otherthoughts]

I spent roughly equal periods of my employment on both sides of the divide, starting in the pressroom, from there I weaseled my way into becoming a 4-color stripper, from there I demanded a raise before becoming a high-end scanner operator, and lastly I became an instructor with Linotype-Hell-Heidelberg.

In many areas, my experience is no longer of any value, my time in the field ranged from 1981 to 2001. However, in some areas, my opinions may still be worthwhile.

The pressroom is often filled with Egos, Voodoo, Magic, Superstition and Attitude. The shame and remorse a pressman feels after producing thousands of dollars of un-saleable waste paper for his employer, makes him feel pretty small. The pressman never forgets how costly his mistakes can be. The pressman knows he bears a responsibility that far outweighs any mistake a prepress operator can make, short of deleting the entire contents of the file server, backups and archives. The stress the pressman feels as a consequence, makes him a little bit crazy, along with the fumes and noise.

The pressman is often required to tickle the color on his press in order to educate and ultimately disappoint the customer, being that his press has perhaps a D-max of 2.00, whereas the customer’s original film-positive/image-data has a D-max of 3.0 or more, and that his press cannot achieve or match the more saturated reds and blues that the customer so adamantly desires. Oftentimes the only thing keeping the pressman from becoming belligerent is the “you better not” scowl of a superior.

4-color stripping is largely a talent for the history books nowadays. However there are still some similarities. 4-color stripping was a black or white issue. Either the page had a bleed on it or it didn’t, either your folio and pagination was right or it wasn’t. As long as the proof passed your inspection and either the customer’s or your manager’s approval, you were thereafter held free from blame.

Scanning once more plucks you unceremoniously out of the black and white land and slaps you squarely back into color land. Here again you are called upon to educate your customers regarding color space. Oftentimes the only thing restraining you from becoming belligerent is the “you better not” scowl of a superior once again.

From what I have seen, preflight is a miserable job as well. These talented individuals work within a heretofore unmentioned but equally miserable realm to that of the color land world. These individuals are often charged with educating their customers and keeping their cool absent the “you better not” scowl of a superior, but they face a whole host of topics.

I hope this post helps one another to relate and better understand their co-workers residing on the other side of the divide.

I also strongly invite those that have worked on both sides to contribute their opinions.

Teamwork and understanding is far better than the battle, and might transform your workplace into a place you like rather than a place you get paid to go to.

 

[Dannymonky]

I am currently on the prepress side for the last 2 yrs almost. Before then I ran a press in a small family business. I am the prepress dept at a small shop in fl. It helps in prepress to have experience in actually running a press. I actually got pulled out of prepress this morning to run some 4bar envelopes. Brought me right back to the misery of running a press. With this economy tho its helpful to do many things in a shop in order to keep your job. Kinda sad but I run the fork lift on occasion and do shipping too. Even cut stock if needed. But I prefer to stay in my dark office surrounded by the soft glow of 5 monitors than run a press...

 

[rbailleu]

"In many areas, my experience is no longer of any value, my time in the field ranged from 1981 to 2001. However, in some areas, my opinions may still be worthwhile."


I say that all experience is valuable, background info will always serve you well.

 

[past_print]

15 yrs later. Here I am. I started without a clue in printing, BUT very intrigued by the industry. As my username suggests, printing is going to my past (although a passiom from the start). I still love to read about the changes and what others have to offer.

Previously, bindery, delivery, mailing, customer service, electronic prepress, etc.
Currently.. barely dabbling in my past passion.
Still holding on while moving on.
Happy to hear about what others are doing and where the industry is going.

That's me!!

 

[vniehaus]

My experience with prepress, after spending a decade in the press room, taught me to have a thick skin. Every little thing you do mistakenly, while not always very serious, gets noticed and pointed out.

When a pressman makes a mistake it is more costly and crushing. If a prepress mistake gets by the pressman then it's the pressman's mistake too. IMO.

Pressman do not usually get the credit they deserve. It takes just as much skill to operate a press as it does too prepress jobs. Unless perhaps the prepress operator takes things farther with automation scripts, IT support, or graphic design.

I'm 35 and grew up in a print shop. It's all I know.

The press room is where it's at.

 

[past_print]

I spent roughly equal periods of my employment on both sides of the divide, starting in the pressroom, from there I weaseled my way into becoming a 4-color stripper, from there I demanded a raise before becoming a high-end scanner operator, and lastly I became an instructor with Linotype-Hell-Heidelberg.

In many areas, my experience is no longer of any value, my time in the field ranged from 1981 to 2001. However, in some areas, my opinions may still be worthwhile.

The pressroom is often filled with Egos, Voodoo, Magic, Superstition and Attitude. The shame and remorse a pressman feels after producing thousands of dollars of un-saleable waste paper for his employer, makes him feel pretty small. The pressman never forgets how costly his mistakes can be. The pressman knows he bears a responsibility that far outweighs any mistake a prepress operator can make, short of deleting the entire contents of the file server, backups and archives. The stress the pressman feels as a consequence, makes him a little bit crazy, along with the fumes and noise.

The pressman is often required to tickle the color on his press in order to educate and ultimately disappoint the customer, being that his press has perhaps a D-max of 2.00, whereas the customer’s original film-positive/image-data has a D-max of 3.0 or more, and that his press cannot achieve or match the more saturated reds and blues that the customer so adamantly desires. Oftentimes the only thing keeping the pressman from becoming belligerent is the “you better not” scowl of a superior.

4-color stripping is largely a talent for the history books nowadays. However there are still some similarities. 4-color stripping was a black or white issue. Either the page had a bleed on it or it didn’t, either your folio and pagination was right or it wasn’t. As long as the proof passed your inspection and either the customer’s or your manager’s approval, you were thereafter held free from blame.

Scanning once more plucks you unceremoniously out of the black and white land and slaps you squarely back into color land. Here again you are called upon to educate your customers regarding color space. Oftentimes the only thing restraining you from becoming belligerent is the “you better not” scowl of a superior once again.

From what I have seen, preflight is a miserable job as well. These talented individuals work within a heretofore unmentioned but equally miserable realm to that of the color land world. These individuals are often charged with educating their customers and keeping their cool absent the “you better not” scowl of a superior, but they face a whole host of topics.

I hope this post helps one another to relate and better understand their co-workers residing on the other side of the divide.

I also strongly invite those that have worked on both sides to contribute their opinions.

Teamwork and understanding is far better than the battle, and might transform your workplace into a place you like rather than a place you get paid to go to.

I just reread your post. Well said! Very well said!

 

[Grnofslt]

I'm in a pre press department now, after having been a pressman since 1999. I've been doing prepress now for about 2 and a half years. In my opinion, a prepress operator should have on press experience to take with him into the pre press department. MY co workers know nothing about an offset press except that you have to make a negative that you tape to a masking sheet and then burn a plate. They have no clue about the pull or push side guides on many presses that help the paper be in the same place every time thus the image in the same place every time. They had no clue about work and tumble or work and turn, or sheet wise ways of stripping jobs in order to make the pressman's life easier when it comes time to change plates for the reverse side of a job (All our offset presses are one color) They don't take care for pin holes in the negatives (we still use a camera and easel to shoot line shots) and it is the pressman who has to use the deletion pen to remove spots fron the plates.

I have tried in my time in prepress to do things that would make the pressman's life just a bit easier than it normally is but under the crude obsolete circumstances I find myself working in, that isn't always a lot of help to the guy stuck printing.

Working on press was totally nuts. You had to have just the right amount of air to the right amount of suction, and the right amount of fountain solution dampening your plate to just the right amount of ink (don't have spots, hickies, or broken type in your job, and you better keep those jobs that will not get a final trim with clean edges (8.5X11" letter head stock) keep your colors constant, don't let the job offset, etc all on a variety of stock everywhere from 14 point board down to 30lb damn near tissue paper, to permanent pressure sensitive stock to other stock that has dry gum glue on the back that curls up when it is cut, to trying to feed #10 envelopes through a press without having an envelope feeder.

I feel for both sides of the printing field, both have their headaches and heart aches and both sides contribute to stress and ulcers but when a job gets done good on press, and when the prepress person fixes a totally screwed customer's electronic art file and the job gets accepted without any hassles, then there is a feeling of satisfaction for overcoming obstacles that would make normal people cry.

We people in the printing industry just ain't right in the head or we would get a normal job, Ya think?

 

[neversatisfied]

Thanks for posting this thread OTHERTHOUGHTS. This is my first reply since becoming a member about one month ago. I have only been on one side of the divide (pressman) all my career, about 32 years now. Very good comments by all who have replied. I have been very fortunate to have had a good working relationship with pre-press my whole career, but now and then you do have friction with one or two persons.(hard to avoid) Why can't we all just get along? Communication is key to making things work. I really like this web site, its probably the best I have found yet. Keep all the good post coming in, we can all learn more.

 

[gordo]

When Heidelberg and Creo formed a joint venture, one of my tasks was to educate the demo centers on Creo CTP and its impact in the pressroom. One of the HD demo centers I did training at was their premier facility in Kennesaw Georgia. HD was always good at showing off the "total end-to-end" solution, so, in the demo center there was a wall between prepress and pressroom (to keep the press sounds out). A wall of glass. That way any customers could see through from prepress to pressroom and vice versa.
Despite this level of integration, I discovered that the prepress folks there had never really been in the pressroom. Nor had press operators been in the prepress area of the demo facilities. They never talked to one another.
Though it was transparent, the wall was very similar to the imaginary walls I've seen in many print shops, and just opaque.
If even as sophisticated a company as Heidelberg can have this kind of barrier, it's not so surprising if it happens in your typical printshop.

gordo

my print blog here: Quality In Print

 

[otherthoughts]

When Heidelberg and Creo formed a joint venture, one of my tasks was to educate the demo centers on Creo CTP and its impact in the pressroom. One of the HD demo centers I did training at was their premier facility in Kennesaw Georgia. HD was always good at showing off the "total end-to-end" solution, so, in the demo center there was a wall between prepress and pressroom (to keep the press sounds out). A wall of glass. That way any customers could see through from prepress to pressroom and vice versa.
Despite this level of integration, I discovered that the prepress folks there had never really been in the pressroom. Nor had press operators been in the prepress area of the demo facilities. They never talked to one another.
Though it was transparent, the wall was very similar to the imaginary walls I've seen in many print shops, and just opaque.
If even as sophisticated a company as Heidelberg can have this kind of barrier, it's not so surprising if it happens in your typical printshop.

gordo

my print blog here: Quality In Print

Gordo is correct in his observations, perhaps you and I have crossed paths at some time in our journeys. I didn't work in the demo facilities myself but I have been to most of them many times including Heidelberg's Corporate Headquarters in Kennesaw. I am also familiar with the time frame involved in the joint venture.

Let me just say this. I was likely the only employee they had, who in fact had actually worked on both the press and prepress sides, and perhaps was sufficiently bilingual and fluent enough in the pre-press and pressman's dialects. A translator in essence, with enough know-how to gain the respect of both sides and bring them together.

Was my uncommon experience ultimately deployed in such a capacity? Hell no, very far from it. Although this still irks me, I will simply say to those in management, get to know and position your human resources where they can meet both the client's and companies needs best. When a manager begins to see their staff as widgets that are interchangeable with one another, it's a bad sign. After all, just what does the manager who has lost touch with that which he manages, really manage at all?

Best Regards
otherthoughts

 

[dimitri]

otherthoughts: deep understanding of the psychophysics of a print shop, from prepress to press to management, and a beautiful topic to bring up!

I run around between prepress to press every day of my short career and you describe my thoughts eloquently: respect the pride of the craftsman, whether he/she runs an 8color press, or makes separations. Prepress cannot even imagine the many variables that take place in the printing process; press doesn't realize that the 'curves' do not 'change-all-the-time'. Management doesn't possibly realize a lot of things of either world

People need to communicate to gain understanding.
Processes need to be measured to gain objectivity (we have to imbue craftmanship with science).
Management needs to be accountable to gain respect.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I found that implementing an ISO project was a good way to get teamwork.

After discussing with pressmen the vriables that only the pressman can deal with and what things they can't. Then striking a deal that though the tasks are very different prepress must do their part for the pressman to be able to do his.

Bad prepress will leave the pressman weighing between the lesser evils. But the prepress must also have the attitude to make a job as perfect as possible. If we shrugg our shoulders and pretend we didn't see the problem (or turned a blind eye to potential problems) we start building that wall.

What used to be lacking was clear goals. With ambiguity at every stage missunderstanding, and then pointing fingers at who should have fixed it because anyone could have. When prepress forsee a potential problem and the press man is allowed to be in the decission team work is built. (eg asking pressman "Should prepress try to fix these issues or do you think you can use your skills to find a goodenough compromise?")

There is unity in striving for perfection

 

[Ritter]

I jumped into this industry head first at 16. I started creating/designing small forms for small press quick print work, then promoted to graphic design, then preflight, then prepress, then imposition to the point that after 3 years I was pretty much in charge of the equipment, preflight, prepress, and imposition. At the same time I have had a focus on IT. I brought sound IT concepts in, managed networks, got the computers under control and in an upgrade plan. Among my moves to different shops for various reasons I have now ended up in estimating/integrating automation concepts.

How did I manage this?
Every extra 'dead' minute I had I spent going to the back offering to help run the folder with the folding operator, running the cutter or moving paper to be cut, offering to load paper or grab pails of ink for the press operators. By offering a hand I managed to get enough patience from them to answer a constant stream of why?/how?/why?/how? questions. This bridge I built with the press and postpress people worked both ways when they saw a funky imposition, black that should be overprinted/knocked out or something that could be done better, they came to me and told me. If nobody could answer my question I turned to one of the predecessors of this forum: PrepressForums.

What have I learned?
The biggest problem in most shops is communication. What makes this worse is that management generally does not see any value and does not promote communication. Most management is usually generally clueless and has almost hardly understanding of the actual printing process, even less understanding as to what digital prepress does or how it works, and basically zero about color concepts and sound printing. If they can't see the process physically they might as well be on the golf course (it's rather funny that generally the lack of creativity is what seems to gets you into management and that lack of creativity makes nonphysical concepts harder to understand). Press/Postpress lacks understanding of what prepress does and feels hamstrung. They are truly the ones stuck in the worse position. Prepress is always on edge and when somebody comes to see them it is always because they've messed something up. They are generally given underpowered tools (computers, networks, etc.), not given any chance to get educated or take some time to self-educate and given an extreme workload that has zero rhythm. That imposition that pissed off the press and then the postpress, yeah prepress did what they were told and have learned from experience if you question it management will squash you.

To surmise what I'm getting at the lack of communication and the lack of understanding what different departments do starts at the top and goes all the way to the bottom. How can management manage people who they don't understand what they do? What scares me even more is that the industry seems to be on a path of hiring lower wage, less educated workers and then outsourcing anything that requires thinking or configuring in an effort to reduce costs. This industry is moving at the speed of light and there don't seem to be very many who can keep up with it. Those who can seem to be moving towards working for vendors then charging the hell out of print providers for use of their skills.

Sorry to be so long-winded...