HELP, How hard will it be to teach a gravure insert press-op to run a sheetfed press

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

I have not run a gravure press, so looking for someone who has run gravure and sheetfed, to see how hard transition will be, i.e. how much training will I have to do. He was running a big engraved cylinder gravure press at Quad, we have a 3/4 size 5 color with coater. Aside from the obvious material handling learning curve, not sure how similar color will be going from globally increasing or decreasing flow rates and solvent amounts to ink keys? Please help. And sidebar; high unemployment and layoffs have not made it easier to find press-ops, no one wants to do this work, or work second shift any more.

 

[loopyg66]

not even close......

not even close......

I have not run a gravure press, so looking for someone who has run gravure and sheetfed, to see how hard transition will be, i.e. how much training will I have to do. He was running a big engraved cylinder gravure press at Quad, we have a 3/4 size 5 color with coater. Aside from the obvious material handling learning curve, not sure how similar color will be going from globally increasing or decreasing flow rates and solvent amounts to ink keys? Please help. And sidebar; high unemployment and layoffs have not made it easier to find press-ops, no one wants to do this work, or work second shift any more.

You'd be in the same place if you went down the street and hired someone from starbucks.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Web Gravure to sheetfed offset is going to be a long learning curve for both of you. If you and your company are willing to invest the time and material in developing this person then you have my admiration. If he understands colour, crew management and the importance of logical troubleshooting he might be a good candidate but as you already know Gravure and Lithography as processes dont share too much in common. I once trained some web flexo guys to run web offset and they did pretty good at it.
Good Luck

 

[Ret Heidelberg Instructor]

Ret Heidelberg Instructor

Ret Heidelberg Instructor

[

It will all about learning ink and water. The curve will be small or big depending on how well the operator can master the process. If it were an Anicolor it would be easy. Saying that, these days with ink pre-sets and color managed workflows less skill is required and the learning curve is much quicker. Good Luck.






QUOTE=TheProcessIStheproduct;177992]I have not run a gravure press, so looking for someone who has run gravure and sheetfed, to see how hard transition will be, i.e. how much training will I have to do. He was running a big engraved cylinder gravure press at Quad, we have a 3/4 size 5 color with coater. Aside from the obvious material handling learning curve, not sure how similar color will be going from globally increasing or decreasing flow rates and solvent amounts to ink keys? Please help. And sidebar; high unemployment and layoffs have not made it easier to find press-ops, no one wants to do this work, or work second shift any more.[/QUOTE]

 

[loopyg66]

[

It will all about learning ink and water. The curve will be small or big depending on how well the operator can master the process. If it were an Anicolor it would be easy. Saying that, these days with ink pre-sets and color managed workflows less skill is required and the learning curve is much quicker. Good Luck.




The learning curve is not quicker. Having ink presets only makes it faster, as far as makeready is concerned. Presets don't teach you ink and water balance, it only sets your ink keys. It is up to the operator to control the water balance, and it's also up to the operator to set and maintain rollers settings and understand what each does and how lite/heavy stripes affects your print, etc.. Presets don't teach what to do if you're emulsified, drying up, washing out, and on and on. These things are learned over time, and also if you had a good teacher.

This is the problem with the technology today. Too many people think that all the sensors and bells and whistles run the press for you. You still have to understand the printing process and learn the art of good ink/water balance. There are too many operators out there that are running multi million dollar presses that don't understand the process. They can push buttons with the best of them, but once they get in trouble, they have no clue.

As a retired instructor, you should know this as well as anyone. I, by the way, am not retired and run into this all the time.

Some may even be offended that in saying by having preset ink keys, you'll be a real press operator that much faster.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

[

You still have to understand the printing process and learn the art of good ink/water balance.

It is so good to hear that mastering good ink/water balance is still at the heart of the process and existing state of the art technology has not changed that.

 

[Ret Heidelberg Instructor]

You sir are correct in what you are saying. Maybe I should have added a lot more in my answer to the original poster. You covered some very critical points. I opted for a quick response but, I couldn't agree with you more I could write a book on what I have encountered in the industry. Unfortunately I have found that the salesmen tend to over simplify the process in order to generate a sale.I am sure that there will be some backlash from sales people but this is my 2 cents worth.


[QtoUOTE=loopyg66;178032]

[

It will all about learning ink and water. The curve will be small or big depending on how well the operator can master the process. If it were an Anicolor it would be easy. Saying that, these days with ink pre-sets and color managed workflows less skill is required and the learning curve is much quicker. Good Luck.




The learning curve is not quicker. Having ink presets only makes it faster, as far as makeready is concerned. Presets don't teach you ink and water balance, it only sets your ink keys. It is up to the operator to control the water balance, and it's also up to the operator to set and maintain rollers settings and understand what each does and how lite/heavy stripes affects your print, etc.. Presets don't teach what to do if you're emulsified, drying up, washing out, and on and on. These things are learned over time, and also if you had a good teacher.

This is the problem with the technology today. Too many people think that all the sensors and bells and whistles run the press for you. You still have to understand the printing process and learn the art of good ink/water balance. There are too many operators out there that are running multi million dollar presses that don't understand the process. They can push buttons with the best of them, but once they get in trouble, they have no clue.

As a retired instructor, you should know this as well as anyone. I, by the way, am not retired and run into this all the time.

Some may even be offended that in saying by having preset ink keys, you'll be a real press operator that much faster.

 

[duct maestro]

This is a good thread, full of constructive communication. Well done peeps

 

[Bill Rothwell]

great thread gents,
I couldn't agree with you gents more!! It seems today, Ink and water balance is less understood by a fair amount of younger operators (at least in my area). loopyg66 you are exactly right it is very important to have had a good teacher. I have had operators who were poorly trained and never taught the principals of ink and water balance and are hard headed to get them to understand. I had one operator tell me he would rather wash out an image than dry up....he didn't last long. It was like trying to teach him not to drink his coffee with a fork but he kept doing it. Best wishes and enjoy your weekend everyone, Bill