Help, HP Indigo 5000 problems

[Visualaid]

Ink is rubbing/scratching off any type of substrate. The techs and I have replaced numerous parts and rebuilt the inks and gave everything a thorough cleaning and changed the filters and completely put new imaging oil in, cleaned scorotrons, new blanket, pip, etc.. It is a used Indigo 5000. No matter what tricks we try the ink still isnt adhering to the substrate. The humidity is very low by the Indigo 5000; we are getting a humidifier but I have a feeling that won't fix the issue.

Does anyone know what this could be?

 

[jinthebay]

What's your blanket temp set at? If it's too low or the sensor is not reading it correctly, this can happen. Is it on EVERY substrate? Some worse than others?

 

[Visualaid]

Blanket temp is default, 160. I could check the sensor I guess (checked sensor, it's clean). Every substrate is having this problem.

 

[jinthebay]

How soon does the ink start to rub off? Immediately? What does your first transfer sheets look like?

If you're under contract, don't waste YOUR time. Get HP to get someone in and solve this problem. Don't let them off the hook too easily. They will get you to jump through their hoops for along time. If you're shared maintenance, you're only responsible for so much.

 

[Visualaid]

ugh...

ugh...

ink rubs/scratches off immediately or after an hour of setting. i usually hit first transfer anywhere from 4-6. taking the shared main. class in december (of all months to travel); but i've been printing and maintenance'ing the indigo for 6 months(i've trained at 2 other printing companies plus a lot with 2 different techs). I found the user's guide today off the HP website; it's 400 pages of information that I already know and perform because of how much trouble we've had with this indigo so far. guess i'll just place another service call. i've been thru every possible troubleshooting idea that comes to mind like raising blanket temp, running heavy sub mode, run at levels 1,2,3 & normal. conductivity, etc. is perfect. i did read that on 1st transfer you are supposed to get 3 triangles for front and 3 for rear; i don't do it like that, i've been choosing the first "complete" triangle for front and first "complete" for rear that i see.

 

[dipressforum]

we had very similar issues, and we did a full ink-rebuild and the issue was gone. From there on we do it every week. Also if the ink coverage is more than 300% then there is a problem. It won't stick.

Try using a GPA certified paper and see if you still have the same problem. If yes, then call HP and they have to act on it.

 

[Visualaid]

ink rebuild was done, everything cleaned in bid washer, coverage was around 268

 

[ChristopheF1]

Hi,
you wrote that you cleaned the temp sensor, but is it lately calibrated ?
I know that sometime's it losses it's setpiont
The immagine agent, let it out and try some from antoher bulk...cause for inkt problems sometimes.
Whats the condition of the carbonbrushes/ holders/ cables/ contacts? If the rings on the drums are greassy you might get strange issues there...
Paperquality..? This is always tricky..has it coated properly...very hard to tell cause you can't see it or measure it... Humidity of the paper ? ( to ) wet / ( to ) dry ?
Ask arround for other inkt series...( other bacht numbers ) it wouldn't be the first time.....
I will try to think of some things...
Regards

 

[Visualaid]

here are some pics

here are some pics

i've attached 3 pictures...

 

[Visualaid]

the uploading is being stupid

 

[Visualaid]

the uploading ya ya ya

 

[Visualaid]

maybe this will shed some light?

maybe this will shed some light?

hopefully the pictures i've uploaded will shed some light...

thanks guys

 

[flamRon]

We had the same issue on our 3050. Rebuilding the inks had always fixed it in the past.

We had a tech come in when that didn't work. He recalibrated the inks (as mentioned earlier). The calibrations had become corrupt over time.

Once the calibration was done and inks rebuilt again, all was well.

 

[ChristopheF1]

Ofcourse for me the Indigo's is some time ago and so are the Xeikons ,
but on the 2nd picture I -> isn't it on the side where the cleaning oil flows back to the tank and you might have a spill on the blanket and paper..
If the substrate see's oil, or vapors from oil the ink might not get into to the paper...
Do you have it on all prints on the same position, try turning the paper 180° and see what happens..what about, if you just do a papertransfer, comes the paper clean and dry out of the machine ( single sided/ double sided )
but like you already wrote...You've done already the most common things...
Succes
Christophe

 

[Forty2]

As pointed out, get your blanket IR sensor calibrated. Even though it's showing 160C in the blanket temp window it could have drifted.

Also check your imaging oil flow rate; if it is too high then you can get drips and you'll have too much IO on the PIP.

Humidity is very critical on Indigo too. If it is bone-dry in your pressroom then that can affect ink transfer and adhesion.

 

[Visualaid]

flows were checked and calibrated recently, so was blanket temp/sensor, but i have found something on my own. underneath where the bids set there is a catch tray with a hose connected to it. that hose is clogged with dried ink. I also saw imaging oil dripping from the pip and i've got imaging oil all the way down into the perfector. So somewhere between the bids and pip I'm getting way too much oil. The company that had it before us didNOT take care of it or keep it clean, so it's been a fight for me so far. The humidity is very low, 16%, we are getting a humidifier soon enough, and possibly closing off the room so the Indigo has it's own room.

hopefully the engineer and i will nail this down next week.

 

[flamRon]

That hose is no fun to unclog.

I'd still lean towards the inks being out of calibration. If the tech is coming, make sure he is bringing their fancy new ink calibration tool. Our tech said only a few have them, but they are awesome.

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

yes make sure ink density and conductivity are reading correctly. also try a different lot of blankets, I just had a lot that was really crappy, I was getting like 3-5K impressions before adhesion was crap, I would not put all you eggs in the humidity basket, I would bet that is NOT the problem...

 

[JudP]

I have 8 Indigos - 4 5000's, 1 4500 and 2 7200's and I can tell you that they are not as sensitive to humidity as one might think. When the 5000's were first installed we had them on the floor with the other presses and then moved them into their own room which was fully climate controlled and it really made no difference. The only thing that humidity has an effect on in my experience is paper feeding and really only if you are running a lightweight paper (I regularly run 40lb book).

I completely agree with the earlier posts - it sounds like your inks are out of calibration. Do you have a meter? The new HP meters measure both density and conductivity and any time I have had adhesion problems it has always been that the inks were not calibrated. The clogged hose may cause drips however these will look like drips on the printed sheets.

I've been dealing with Indigos for a long time (got my first Indigo 1000 in 1996/1997) and, while they definitely require maintenance and proper upkeep, if you take care of them, they will definitely take care of you...

 

[Visualaid]

Can someone give me direction on what humidifier I need to buy for the Indigo 5000? This just got dropped on me and I have no clue about humidifiers or what works well with the 5000.

Inks, conductivity are perfect. I cleaned the cleaning station out, it had quite a bit of crap in it. In the manual it says the BIDS are the cause for puddles of oil on your prints.