Help Needed: Printer for 350gsm card

[skyxi]

Any help would be grateful...I am very new to the printing industry.

I sell personalised greeting cards on amazon. Currently I use laser to cut artworks and would like to expand our business into printed greeting cards, I am thinking printing around 200 A4 card everyday.

I bought an used C60 and would like to print some cards using 250gsm paper, then end up with leaking inks, leave some black marks on the prints edge,
Paper always jams, I checked the paper, it seems a corner tend to be folded by the machine, it is alright when I print 80gsm paper, but will jam when printing 300gsm paper.
Engineer has been here and can not solve the issue.

I would like to invest a new printer, but not sure which one is best for my application.
Inkjet would be good for colors, but slow and high cost, and I am not sure which model would suit.

I am thinking of buying a versant 280, as it stated that it can take 400gsm paper, not sure whether this is the right choice.

I am not sure where to get the right paper, currently I am using WLcoller paper below

SRA3 250gsm LumiArt Gloss - 250 Sheets - WL Coller Ltd

Lumi Digital Gloss Coated Card SRA3 250gsm Description:- LUMI is a triple coated, European manufactured, digital gloss coated printing paper. LumiArt has a very smooth and high white appearance, it is one of the most opaque coated papers on the market, it also offers low ink consumption and good...

wlcoller.co.uk

Thx..Sky

 

[Ynot_UK]

I bought an used C60 and would like to print some cards using 250gsm paper, then end up with leaking inks, leave some black marks on the prints edge,
Paper always jams, I checked the paper, it seems a corner tend to be folded by the machine, it is alright when I print 80gsm paper, but will jam when printing 300gsm paper.
Engineer has been here and can not solve the issue.

What input configuration do you have - specifically, do you have the high capacity feeder deck?
If not, the only tray capable of handling 300GSM substrates is the bypass tray.
This could explain your paper jams.

 

[skyxi]

What input configuration do you have - specifically, do you have the high capacity feeder deck?
If not, the only tray capable of handling 300GSM substrates is the bypass tray.
This could explain your paper jams.

Thx I do not think I have the high capacity feeder deck, I use the bypass tray, but still have jam, the problem is paper folded at one corner during printing, not sure what happened..

Do you think versant 280 would be a good choice?

 

[Ynot_UK]

Thx I do not think I have the high capacity feeder deck, I use the bypass tray, but still have jam, the problem is paper folded at one corner during printing, not sure what happened..

Do you think versant 280 would be a good choice?

The bypass tray on any machine will always be the least reliable in terms of registration and the clue is in the name - it is intended for bypassing, i.e. a few ad-hoc sheets here and there. Your engineer should have indicated this.

A few other thoughts from your OP:

• You indicate you currently sell greetings cards and want to start producing them in-house. Therefore you know the quality of the finished product you are currently sourcing and that should be the benchmark for the minimum quality you want to achieve.
• Do you have the finishing equipment you will need to produce greetings cards (a decent roll laminator - possibly with foiling capability, a creaser and guillotine)?
• Typically you wouldn't print anything on A4 stock, as you want to maximise the printed real estate to the click charge. Generally a digital shop will print onto SRA3 and trim, so depending on the size of the cards, you may get 1,2,3,4 or 6 full bleed greetings cards out of one sheet of SRA3
  • When laying up your designs onto an SRA3 page, be mindful of the laminating margin, also if your laminator bursts, it may place indents a couple of mm in on the film.
• Regarding paper merchants, your profile does not indicate where on the globe you are. However, in most developed countries there are a few popular merchants used by >95% of shops/PSPs. They'll also stock a range of the diamond V-shape envelopes you'll want to sell with your greetings cards
• If you are looking to print just 50 x SRA3 sheets per day (around 2,000 clicks per month, assuming to both sides) then you will be better off all round in forming a relationship with a local digital shop whom you can give print ready PDFs to. Investing in a digital press alone will require much higher volumes to wash its face commercially.
  • At those low volumes, I'd imagine you would be unable to secure a sensibly priced CPC contract. The vendor is likely to impose a minimum monthly charge, to make it worthwhile.

I'm not familiar with Xerox (we're a KM shop) however I guess the actual make/model of printer isn't particularly important at this stage.

 

[skyxi]

thx indeed for your help....will speak to engineer about the high capacity feeder deck

• You indicate you currently sell greetings cards and want to start producing them in-house. Therefore you know the quality of the finished product you are currently sourcing and that should be the benchmark for the minimum quality you want to achieve.

we sell laser cut greeting cards atm..so not sure what is the minimal quality..//

• Do you have the finishing equipment you will need to produce greetings cards (a decent roll laminator - possibly with foiling capability, a creaser and guillotine)?

Do i have to use a laminator? I am thinking of printing directly on a gloss paper. I have the plan to buy proper creaser and guillotine when I have more volume, currently I use laser as creaser and guillotine.

• Typically you wouldn't print anything on A4 stock, as you want to maximise the printed real estate to the click charge. Generally a digital shop will print onto SRA3 and trim, so depending on the size of the cards, you may get 1,2,3,4 or 6 full bleed greetings cards out of one sheet of SRA3
  • When laying up your designs onto an SRA3 page, be mindful of the laminating margin, also if your laminator bursts, it may place indents a couple of mm in on the film

Thx, that is very helpful.

• Regarding paper merchants, your profile does not indicate where on the globe you are. However, in most developed countries there are a few popular merchants used by >95% of shops/PSPs. They'll also stock a range of the diamond V-shape envelopes you'll want to sell with your greetings cards

I am in UK, I have diamond V-shape envelop supplier atm.

• If you are looking to print just 50 x SRA3 sheets per day (around 2,000 clicks per month, assuming to both sides) then you will be better off all round in forming a relationship with a local digital shop whom you can give print ready PDFs to. Investing in a digital press alone will require much higher volumes to wash its face commercially.
  • At those low volumes, I'd imagine you would be unable to secure a sensibly priced CPC contract. The vendor is likely to impose a minimum monthly charge, to make it worthwhile.

Thx.. I am looking for same day delivery, so prefer to do everything in house, have the budget around £15-20k, not sure whether it is enough..

I'm not familiar with Xerox (we're a KM shop) however I guess the actual make/model of printer isn't particularly important at this stage.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Same day, OK, so I imagine you're looking to produce one off bespoke (personalised custom cards).
DYOR... however that market is rather saturated, with the big players spending serious money on Adwords to dominate and maintain their economies of scale.

I imagine it would be too easy to become a busy fool, spending a lot of time producing half a dozen bespoke cards each day. You say you're unsure of 'minimal quality' - customers expect the same as they would get from the pig. A proper crease is prerequisite, you can't sell something a customer could make on their home or office laser printer. In other words, you need to produce a full bleed, creased greetings card with one or more forms of embellishment (laminate, foil, UV, etc). Just my 2p.

 

[gazfocus]

A Versant 280 is going to blow your budget unfortunately. You might be able to get the bare machine with fiery for around £20k but you’ll need a high capacity feeder to handle any decent card stock, which will take you over the £20k and that’s before adding vat.

The Xerox C60 really isn’t designed for what you’re wanting to achieve. It’s not much more than an office machine - we looked at one for doing stickers but the deal fell through, but I wouldn’t even try it for greeting cards.

The main reason I wanted to comment is the Lumi paper. Firstly, 250gsm is not good enough for greeting cards. It amazes me how many people sell greeting cards on 250gsm card stock. It’s really poor. You want 350gsm and if you can get a machine that supports it. Also, Lumi is rubbish (you get what you pay for). You would be best trying a couple of different brands with your current printer as it is likely there’s a compatibility issue with your Xerox and the rubbish Lumi paper.

 

[pippip]

I believe Lumi's no longer available, or shortly to be. The mill switched to packaging. All my suppliers ditched it last year.

Merchants prep ranges for Lumi alternatives - Printweek

Paper merchants have adapted their ranges as the end looms for Stora Enso’s high-end Lumi grade.

www.printweek.com

 

[skyxi]

A Versant 280 is going to blow your budget unfortunately. You might be able to get the bare machine with fiery for around £20k but you’ll need a high capacity feeder to handle any decent card stock, which will take you over the £20k and that’s before adding vat.

The Xerox C60 really isn’t designed for what you’re wanting to achieve. It’s not much more than an office machine - we looked at one for doing stickers but the deal fell through, but I wouldn’t even try it for greeting cards.

The main reason I wanted to comment is the Lumi paper. Firstly, 250gsm is not good enough for greeting cards. It amazes me how many people sell greeting cards on 250gsm card stock. It’s really poor. You want 350gsm and if you can get a machine that supports it. Also, Lumi is rubbish (you get what you pay for). You would be best trying a couple of different brands with your current printer as it is likely there’s a compatibility issue with your Xerox and the rubbish Lumi paper.

Thx, very helpful.. i will have a think, mayget

Best Regards
SKY

A Versant 280 is going to blow your budget unfortunately. You might be able to get the bare machine with fiery for around £20k but you’ll need a high capacity feeder to handle any decent card stock, which will take you over the £20k and that’s before adding vat.

The Xerox C60 really isn’t designed for what you’re wanting to achieve. It’s not much more than an office machine - we looked at one for doing stickers but the deal fell through, but I wouldn’t even try it for greeting cards.

The main reason I wanted to comment is the Lumi paper. Firstly, 250gsm is not good enough for greeting cards. It amazes me how many people sell greeting cards on 250gsm card stock. It’s really poor. You want 350gsm and if you can get a machine that supports it. Also, Lumi is rubbish (you get what you pay for). You would be best trying a couple of different brands with your current printer as it is likely there’s a compatibility issue with your Xerox and the rubbish Lumi paper.

Thx indeed.. I am running out of sapce now, so wonder whether I have to buy a laminator for greeting cards?