Help with digital equipment decision

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C900 tcru

C900 tcru

This was a big reason we went with the 700. The picture quality and color control we get from the 700 is nothing like anything we ever had on a demo. We had every vendor print some of our company files and bring them to us. The BLACKS on the Xerox were hands down the best we had seen. Without looking through a loop you could not tell where there were any lines in a sunset photo where on others you could see where they changed colors. As for ease of use and paper jams....ZERO complaints from our copy center employees. They love the fact they can change the drum on their own without any down time. That is something that Konica or Ricoh could not promise. Again, the Xerox costs us more per month but we don't have to worry about being down for four hours waiting for the Konica or Ricoh tech to show up to replace a drum. The difference from the 6501 and the 700 that we ended up getting was about $550.00 more per month. We make that cost up in less downtime and more productivity. We can now duplex 220 in the drawers and not have to flip it like we did on our old Konica 6500's.

Not sure which Ricoh you were talking about, but the C900 has eight "Trained Customer Replacement Unit" parts that can be replaced as needed, including the OPC and the drum cleaning unit. Takes only a few minutes using one tool, it's white-glove and it's so simple even a manager could do it!

 

[whitecollarskater]

Don't remember which Ricoh

Don't remember which Ricoh

the difference is that the Xerox was easier and the quality of the Xerox vs. the Ricoh was not even close. The Konica kicked the crap out of the Ricoh on color quality. Ricoh just doesn't seem to have what it takes in production color. They couldn't give us nearly as many references as Konica or Xerox did.

 

[kinni88]

Laser Safe

Laser Safe

DO NOT USE any oil based toner for letter head. Your product will melt/smudge during secondary printing through lasers or copier type machines.

 

[Craig]

DO NOT USE any oil based toner for letter head. Your product will melt/smudge during secondary printing through lasers or copier type machines.

It's NOT the oil.... it's the TONER and the FUSER temperature!

 

[kinni88]

That is true -- it is the toner and the fusing temperature. It is the fusing temperature of the machines that end customers run it through and the digital printer that you use to print the letterhead. As a producer of letterhead; am I going to tell every customer that they need to qualify every laser printer and copier that they run the letterhead through? If you spend 65k to 500k for a digital printer, are you going to ask the manufacturer to adjust the fusing temperature for your toner for every substrate as well? The toner from the big manufacturers like Xerox, Canon, KM etc. should be solving this problem instead quoting "potential" laser safe when the moon is full. I would hate to spend the money and find out that I have to continue to run my 2 color or 4 color press for a run of 250 or 500 after I receive several shipments back ffrom the customer.

 

[Craig]

The toner from the big manufacturers like Xerox, Canon, KM etc. should be solving this problem instead quoting "potential" laser safe when the moon is full. I would hate to spend the money and find out that I have to continue to run my 2 color or 4 color press for a run of 250 or 500 after I receive several shipments back ffrom the customer.

How on earth would you make the toner solve the problem? It's the fact that my fuser temperature may be slightly lower than that of your fuser temperature. It's all relevant to the heat of the different print engines, toner will not solve the problem. That's why you have a 2 and 4 color press. There is NOT a digital toner based solution for every problem. Now inkjet may be the ultimate answer... who knows.

 

[Craig]

The toner smears due to it being re-melted by the fuser of the device printing it the second time.

 

[testarossa]

Buy Hp-Indigo 5500. Hands down........

 

[Craig]

Indigo is toner based too, it's just suspended in a "liquid" form.

 

[Graphics Center]

Have you used these machines (the Ricoh Pro C550 and 700EX)? They are two of the machines I'm considering. I need good quality photo & graphics intensive output, and print on average about 15,000 impressions per month.

 

[kinni88]

Machines

Machines

I am familiar with both. The quality is decent, but how are you going to finish the products? Take a look at how they coat, laminate, glue and fold. Send images and the same paper stocks to all of your prospective equipment choices, then finish them. Take a look at your end product then take a look at the TOTAL cost of ownership.

Good Luck

 

[Mark H]

My two choices are
1. KM C6501 with internal fiery, 60 month FMV lease and a click charge of .045 color and .01 B&W
2. Xerox 700 with internal fiery, 60 month FMV lease and a click charge of .049 color and .01 B&W

I can't speak to the units, as I don't have either in house (but did review the x700 and passed on it) however, you need to pay very close attention to the click prices you're being quoted. Make sure you understand what size substrate your vendor considers a click and compare that to what you think you will be putting through the machine. If 11x17 and 8.5x11 are each considered a single click (therefore the same price) get a price on a cutter and a RIP that will gang properly.

Mark H

 

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Ricoh Pro C651/751

Ricoh Pro C651/751

Have you used these machines (the Ricoh Pro C550 and 700EX)? They are two of the machines I'm considering. I need good quality photo & graphics intensive output, and print on average about 15,000 impressions per month.

I work for Ricoh and support their production products so I'm biased but you might also consider the recently introduced Pro 651/751 production devices.

YouTube - ‪Ricoh launches three new best-in-class light production digital presses‬‏ This is a video from the European intro but they're launched and available here in the States now too.

 

[Graphics Center]

That array is so huge, I don't know I could even fit it in my room, much less pay for it. I know everyone wants to upsell, but I only do 14,000 impressions per month; and I think that there very well could be a drop in demand, as more publications, registration forms etc. are going online.

 

[Graphics Center]

Good advice about the finishing.

I am frankly not looking forward to the trials, they can be, well, trying. I'm trying to do my homework so that I don't waste time and effort in evaluating a machine that has no chance of meeting my needs. When I heard complaints that the Ricoh Pro 550ex couldn't print a decent solid, it made me wonder if that machine were worth evaluating, and none of the responses really answered that question for me. What is your experience with this machine's ability to print solids?

 

[kinni88]

You mentioned the "array". You may want to also look into the electrical costs of some digital machines. A the end of the month, when you look at your electric bill; you have to pad those costs into the cost per print.

 

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Letterhead and matching envelopes shouldn't be run on a toner based device...at least not from a commercial printer or professional print shop.

Setting aside, the smear factor; the customer is paying you for a quality product that is going to be seen by their customers. It's not the place to get cheap on just because you don't want to run it through a press.

Offset is hands down better on letterhead/envelopes. If you're going to run them on the digital press then the customer would be better off printing their own letterheads on demand at the same time they print their actual letters in one single shot.

my 2 cents.