How cheap are Riso inkjet printers to run?

[Shredder]

For black and white 6x9 pages are Riso inkjet printers the cheapest to run? Do they make a bw unit that collates? Is it better to print 12x18 and cutting it down or just printing 6x9s on a riso? How many pages can the drum hold? What happens if book #1 is on drum #1 and book #3 is on drum #3, do you swap drums? Are there better alternatives to a Riso? Is it really cost of ink and drums? There are too many riso models to make sense which one is cheapest.

 

[msaeger]

Gotta link to what machine or something close? When I hear riso I am thinking of the kind of machine where it burns a master wrapped around a drum.

 

[Shredder]

Gotta link to what machine or something close? When I hear riso I am thinking of the kind of machine where it burns a master wrapped around a drum.

Yes, one of those:
Riso Products
They make different models, I believe the Comcolor line has collating but costs more. I would prefer a cheap bw unit that has collating. Something like this but I don't think this collates:
Riso 9450

Since my books can run hundreds of pages buying an external collator doesn't sound enticing. I would like to print 5000 copies of each sheet so I do have volume. I've been told that printing is really the cost of the ink as nothing can go bad. I have heard numbers from $0.001-2/page not sure if thats accurate or not. I believe it depends the number of pages being printed. I also read that inkjets don't print text that well.

 

[Ynot_UK]

I would like to print 5000 copies of each sheet so I do have volume.

Sub it out to litho

 

[Shredder]

Is litho cheaper than $0.001 (tenth of a penny)? I can't imagine anything being cheaper than this.

 

[bcr]

Comcolor range are just inkjet printers not risograph machines/duplicators.

I had some sample prints from Riso off a comcolor. I wouldnt use it for a book. I think you're barking up the wrong tree to be honest.

 

[Shredder]

Thanks for your advice. They are sending print outs next week. I am reviewing but taking your advice seriously. I have never seen it so was curious.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Is litho cheaper than $0.001 (tenth of a penny)? I can't imagine anything being cheaper than this

You tell me. I imagine you’ve costed all options for your 5,000 run of books of “hundreds of pages”... after all you’re talking of over one million 6x9 sides.

Riso duplicating is not the right tool for the job. You won’t be able to do that job for cheaper than a commercial offset printer geared up to do this as a matter of course, buying paper by the truckload, running several large automated Speedmasters or similar, with accompanying finishing line.

Knowing what we know of your setup, which you have well documented on this forum, if you are able to produce that job in-house for the same or cheaper than subbing it out, then you need to sit down with your trade suppliers, or better still, kick them into touch and source new trade contacts.

 

[msaeger]

Yes, one of those:
Riso Products
They make different models, I believe the Comcolor line has collating but costs more. I would prefer a cheap bw unit that has collating. Something like this but I don't think this collates:
Riso 9450

Since my books can run hundreds of pages buying an external collator doesn't sound enticing. I would like to print 5000 copies of each sheet so I do have volume. I've been told that printing is really the cost of the ink as nothing can go bad. I have heard numbers from $0.001-2/page not sure if thats accurate or not. I believe it depends the number of pages being printed. I also read that inkjets don't print text that well.

So like these

Riso | Digital Duplicators right?

Digital duplicators are very cheap if you are making over some number of prints of a page. Not huge number but you would not want to make two prints. Every time you make a new print it is making a new master so you would have to see what the roll of master material costs but 5000 would be plenty.

You would need to collate offline and I don't know if they all duplex. They are good for text images are not very good. They used to be more popular but as the price per page has gone down on digital stuff they aren't used as much. I know Ricoh had one that would duplex letter size by putting two letter size masters on the drum which would hold 11x17. I mostly saw them in use by churches doing the bulletins and places doing envelopes.

 

[Shredder]

So like these

Riso | Digital Duplicators right?

Digital duplicators are very cheap if you are making over some number of prints of a page. Not huge number but you would not want to make two prints. Every time you make a new print it is making a new master so you would have to see what the roll of master material costs but 5000 would be plenty.

You would need to collate offline and I don't know if they all duplex. They are good for text images are not very good. They used to be more popular but as the price per page has gone down on digital stuff they aren't used as much. I know Ricoh had one that would duplex letter size by putting two letter size masters on the drum which would hold 11x17. I mostly saw them in use by churches doing the bulletins and places doing envelopes.

They have machines that collate, but color. I am planning to use for text. What type of PPC are you seeing on digital stuff. I haven't seen laser go under $0.009/bw.

 

[AP90]

Shredder,

I hope this doesn’t come out too blunt or harsh, but your simply looking at options that no one else is doing. These are mature products, and if people aren’t using them currently for what your wanting, you can’t reinvent the wheel. If what you are wanting to do isn’t being done by anyone else they way your wanting to do it, it probably doesn’t work.

You keep mentioning how cheap a riso is per page. But if you take the standard $.01 for digital and divide that by 4, you get .0025. And that’s collated sheets ready to be cut and bound. Instead with a riso you’d need to collate and then bind, which wouldn’t be easy if the set is say 350 pages.
The only way your going to get an inkjet printer to do 5000 6x9 350 page booklets is to go to industrial inkjet like the Xerox Riato or KM1. But then your talking $1-2 million.

 

[Shredder]

One of my strengths is to look outside the box. Once out of every 100 I find something big. Also, my questions are more about learning the advantages and disadvantages of various technologies. Sometimes I find applications for them, sometimes I don't. Not all Riso require collating and they do make perfect binder finishers for riso comcolor as well. My main purpose is to educate myself on industrial inkjet technology which I have no knowledge about. Im not directly in the printing business but I admire it and try to learn in my free time.

 

[Ynot_UK]

What type of PPC are you seeing on digital stuff. I haven't seen laser go under $0.009/bw.

Do you have a dedicated B/W digital press? (I'm not talking about a B/W click rate on a colour press)
Our click rate for 6x9 printed 4-up is well below the figure you have quoted above.

 

[Ynot_UK]

So like these

Riso | Digital Duplicators right?

Digital duplicators are very cheap if you are making over some number of prints of a page. Not huge number but you would not want to make two prints. Every time you make a new print it is making a new master so you would have to see what the roll of master material costs but 5000 would be plenty.

I'd never paid Riso much attention until it kept getting mentioned on here. Last night I watched this informative video about it, which quickly confirmed why its role will never stretch beyond art & craft activities and the local church/scout group newsletter.

 

[bcr]

Thanks for your advice. They are sending print outs next week. I am reviewing but taking your advice seriously. I have never seen it so was curious.

you also need to be skeptical here about the samples. as an inkjet device, the cost per print is dependent upon the quantity of ink used. How do you know what setting the samples were printed on? Were they printed on an eco mode, or a high ink usage high quality mode? The difference between the two may have a big difference on the cost per page. You also need to think about how the machines handle different substrates. You shouldn't assume they will play nicely with everything you want to print on.

Also - I have to agree with others here. I can't fathom how it would be more economical to do this work in house. Have you really taken the time to negotiate with printers and brokers and to try and build up a relationship with them to explore bulk costings, especially with the prospect of repeat business? You aren't just looking at pricings off websites or enquiries for small runs are you?

I have some sympathy with your position. I am starting an in-house repro and I get satisfaction out of learning about the different technologies and capabilities available. But unless you are doing something really unusual here, I can't figure out the economic rationale.

 

[easiprint]

Firstly you need to differentiate between the two types of printer Riso make. There are duplicators and inkjet models, both very different. I think some people here are mixing the two up. The duplicators use a drum and master, and are OK for printing a few thousand of the same image - not suitable for the intended use here as they cannot do any collation. I've currently got one knocking out 20,000 black and white cheap leaflets. Not the best quality, but OK as long as you accept its cheap and cheerful printing and sell it as that.
They then do inkjet models, such as the ComColor machines. We also have one of those, and again you have to accept the quality is not perfect, it's quite acceptable for text only work, and even some images come out OK. We use ours for church newsletters, ncr's, forms, etc, and its very fast, cheap to run and outputs collated blocks ready for offline binding. So long as you have the right expectation, they're a useful addition. The biggest drawback to all Riso machines, it that they cannot print on coated stocks.

 

[Shredder]

you also need to be skeptical here about the samples. as an inkjet device, the cost per print is dependent upon the quantity of ink used. How do you know what setting the samples were printed on? Were they printed on an eco mode, or a high ink usage high quality mode? The difference between the two may have a big difference on the cost per page. You also need to think about how the machines handle different substrates. You shouldn't assume they will play nicely with everything you want to print on.

Also - I have to agree with others here. I can't fathom how it would be more economical to do this work in house. Have you really taken the time to negotiate with printers and brokers and to try and build up a relationship with them to explore bulk costings, especially with the prospect of repeat business? You aren't just looking at pricings off websites or enquiries for small runs are you?

I have some sympathy with your position. I am starting an in-house repro and I get satisfaction out of learning about the different technologies and capabilities available. But unless you are doing something really unusual here, I can't figure out the economic rationale.

Good points. Its been years since I bidded out my book projects, I will revisit before any future equipment purchases. In the past the cost of perfect binding made it soo costly I had to bring in house. Most of my equipment I buy at repo auctions for a dime on a dollar. So equipment prices are generally nominal. Risos are available very cheap but may not be right technology, was considering it in place of bw laser printer for inside book pages. I was told Risos dont need outside service/maintenance. But I think ink costs more than laser. Mostly it was my curiousity that I wasnt aware of this technology and wanted to see what everyone else thought about them.

 

[LoganBlade]

For black and white 6x9 pages are Riso inkjet printers the cheapest to run? Do they make a bw unit that collates? Is it better to print 12x18 and cutting it down or just printing 6x9s on a riso? How many pages can the drum hold? What happens if book #1 is on drum #1 and book #3 is on drum #3, do you swap drums? Are there better alternatives to a Riso? Is it really cost of ink and drums? There are too many riso models to make sense which one is cheapest.

My Company bought a RISO GD9630 color inkjet printer about 3.5 years ago. 7 million impressions/clicks cost is approximately .02 a page. at 150 copies a minute. quality slows that down as well as duplexing. normal stuff. the only down time has be the a yearly PM for rollers and misc items. the finisher was teh biggest issue that i am told is a xerox rebranded item. booklet stacker stitcher. The cost but when we bough the printer it was around $36,000 if you have some down and dirty work this printer is amazing and cheap. highly recommend it. supplies are dependent on your usage. supplies for our printing are about 10k to 15k a year. service is about 6k to 7k a year. the biggest issue was paper to get better color we just recently purchased Pixelle paper that is treated for inkjet printing. i have no complaints and wish i could get my marketing team to design with it in mind so we could do even more work using the ink jet solution. toner today is over $0.10 to $0.14 a click due to reduced volumes for toner. then add the paper costs.

 

[Craig]

Is litho cheaper than $0.001 (tenth of a penny)? I can't imagine anything being cheaper than this.

Having a GD7335 there is no way in hell it's going to be .001 per. More like .01 without a maintenance contract. Don't even think of using non OEM ink, the colors are no where close. The black is about a 85% gray.

 

[Craig]

toner today is over $0.10 to $0.14 a click due to reduced volumes for toner. then add the paper costs.

That's a bit high, you may want to take a look at a new machine. $.04 each up to 13x19, I've seen proposals as low as $.035.