How do you send dies to vendors?

[appstro]

What the process at your company for sending dies to vendors? Our vendors use Illustrator 8 files only. We are new using Rampage. I was thinking that I would export a die only page from indesign, place it in preps, print a ps file to rampage, register the layout and use high res proof instead of low res monitor, then open that eps in Illustrator and save as an illustrator 8 to send to vendor. That way he would get the file he prefers with all marks. I could just delete what he didnt need, like the color bar. Does that sound about like how you all are doing it???

Mike

 

[michaelejahn]

Most people send layered Illustrator files. I have one customer who sends files as layered Photoshop files saved as PDF which is then imported to Illsutrator - as they have a spot color, a foil an emboss and also a die.

This of course could be exchanged as a PDF, but as most prepress houses might need to touch them (for a million good and bad reasons) - they would rather get the application files with layers and then fuss with them (for example, if you gang up jobs that all have embossing and dies, and the different designers do not follow a common naming convention, well....

 

[appstro]

I am referring to a Prepress level workflow. We outsource our dies to a local guy. So all the dies have to be imposed for him on a press sheet layout. He prefers Illustrator 8 as his software reads CAD info (I think). Sooooo, I need a consistent way of supplying him with illustrator 8 full layouts.... How do you guys deal with dies???

 

[Cory Smith]

we just take the 1up die, step and repeat the appropriate amount in illustrator and send him that file. do not run any dielines for buyouts through rampage.

it's an extra step, but doesn't take too long.

 

[margadri]

Prinergy lets you output pre-separated imposed pdf.
We output the dieline as separation and send it to the diecut guys
They do what they have to do with it without problems

 

[michaelejahn]

@ appstro

you wrote "...I am referring to a Prepress level workflow".

So was I. This Illustrator file is exactly what they send to prepress - this is because the die is from a cad file, the die is opened in Adobe Illustrator by the designer, and the designer uses the die to build the design ON TOP OF SO IT FITS RIGHT - and they save it, and they send it to the prepress service provider.

Non Rampage users - notably Esko, Artworks Nexus users - they use a workflow that seems like a lot fewer steps than you are describing (with you InDesign / Rampage approach...)

They simply then drag that Illustrator file to a watched que to proof it (if they would like a hard copy proof) - as native Illustrator files can be set up to "contain" a full on PDF - or to place into some application (for muti-document pagination - or populate some job ticket (where they set it up to only make plates of the CMYK, spot color and the varnish - then either plot film for the foil and the emboss - or (if the company doing the foil stamping and embossing would prefer - they send them that same Illustrator file.

As I said, I have met a few that exchange PDF files for the same thing, but as designers sometimes do not really understand what a varnish plate has to be prepared - and once the prepress trains that designer - they get promoted or replaced - well, this is simply the ole "just send it to me the Illustrator file so i can edit and fix it" kind of thing...

I know VERY few people who place dies in InDesign in the first place - so, perhaps you are doing pop-up books that have dies AND pages ? Most people start and end in Illustrator when dealing with designing over a die.

Hope this helps !

 

[ajr]

I use the dieline feature in Rampage, works OK. Produces a PS file which I then distill.

AJR

 

[appstro]

AJR, Can you explain how you go about it?

 

[Vee]

It depends on what you are die cutting! I think michaelejahn is speaking in reference to packaging work. I'd bet appstro is working in a more commercial environment...?

I'm not a Rampage user, but I think your proposed workflow sounds very reasonable, appstro. The key being that your file out of Rampage would be the exact same layout as your press sheet. Anything other would be major problems. As I'm sure you know. ; )

 

[buckeye]

We too use the Rampage dieline feature. Name your dieline color "RAMPAGE_DIELINE" and it will automatically overprint. After you have ripped your Preps/imposition file - control click or right click the file from the Rampage Client pagelist and select "Open Page Folder". Inside the "Stats" folder is a folder called "Dielines" which will contain a .ps file that can be distilled to a pdf or opened up with Illustrator. We then open the file in Illustrator and make the document size whatever the sheet size is and include only the dieline with no marks or color bars.

There are albeit a few caveats.

Trapping HAS to be turned on and I'm pretty sure it will not work with PDF Trap Engine prior to version 10.5.

The Rampage manual is pretty clear on how to do it.

Hope this helps,

Erik

 

[Leinie]

We've always had problems getting a die to fit the printed piece if the dieline is stepped and repeated directly in Illustrator. It's frustrating, because we have to place the imposed dieline onto a template to fit a specific (Brausse) diecutter, and we always have to show the people in our diecutting department a proof of the dieline for their approval. Even when the steps are "mathematically" correct, they still don't seem to fit exactly. Is this because Illustrator measures steps differently than Rampage? The ripped Rampage EPS file fits much better, but it seems to be difficult to get everyone to remember that a file containing a dieline needs to be ripped with trap (even if the job doesn't need to be trapped) so that it will create the dieline file.

 

[appstro]

Thanks! I will give it a try. Yes we are a commercial printer and all the dies are laid up on a press sheet. We had RAMpage installed about a month ago and we are still trying to figure things out. The Fuji rep has been very helpful but we are like 5 year olds with a new toy. So many questions!!!

 

[Cory Smith]

you should have at least a year phone support from RAMpage with the new install...don't hesitate using it! they are some of the most knowledgeable techs I have worked with.

 

[appstro]

Yeah WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better that scitex/kodak....so far...

 

[gig0]

Prinergy lets you output pre-separated imposed pdf.
We output the dieline as separation and send it to the diecut guys
They do what they have to do with it without problems

We do the exact same thing. We never give the diemaker Illustrator files since it's not a page layout application. That would be stupid.

 

[appstro]

Stupid?? What, are you three?? Our die cutter has been accepting illustrator 8 files only for the past 10-15 years. I think that he can have it whatever way he needs it and it isnt stupid at all.

 

[margadri]

Stupid?? What, are you three?? Our die cutter has been accepting illustrator 8 files only for the past 10-15 years. I think that he can have it whatever way he needs it and it isnt stupid at all.

No need to snap like that
What I think that gig0 means is that with an imposed layout (with regio marks, fold and so on) it is easier for the diecutters to match the job to the diecut, especially when imposed more that one up

 

[gig0]

not only that, it helps if a diecut needs to run off-center on the sheet, which is fairly common. The note tool simplifies things such as showing perf heights and where the diecuts need to extend.

 

[appstro]

OH! I see.... Well thats what I was referring to in the first place. All of our dies need to be from the same imposition that the job was printed with. I have very rarely rebuilt an imposition in illustrator for a diecutter. My original question may not have been clear enough. I was just looking for a consistent way to output imposed dies to vendors from RAMpage using the existing PREPs layout. I like Eriks idea because it uses the existing layout. Our diecutting is outsourced and he uses only Illustrator 8 files. He wont take anything else. Thanks for all your input. My apologies to gig0 for snapping back.

 

[gig0]

no worries. Our dielines are also outsourced. Before Prinergy, we used to output marked-up film positives of the layout and wanted to get away from that and our 500lb boat anchor, erm, Imagesetter. Considering how ubiquitous the PDF format has become, the die maker was OK with accepting PDFs. Kind of similar to how our industry has transitioned over the years.