Ikon or Xerox..looking for a printer

[VTsignguy]

I am looking to get into a new printer lease very soon, and i would love to be able to get input from everyone on what would be best from these 2 companies. I am interested in the xerox 700, but this would be a giant step up from my current KM cpp500.

I have a meeting with Ikon on monday and Xerox on wednesday. I run about 60,000 clicks a month split about 50/50 color and B&W.

I am looking to upgrade quality and capabilities...speed is NOT the main focus here...but cost might be.

cliffnotes: KM650 or DC252 or Xerox 700 or Ricoh c900 are the 4 i am looking at...

 

[Craig]

If cost is the main driver than the 6500 will more than likely be the cheapest. I would bet the Ricoh would be the most expensive.

 

[VTsignguy]

After looking at Xerox quotes, and waiting on iKon to give me prices, this is what i have in front of me.
Xerox 700 will be $1500 a month for 60 months. This includes the integrated efi and not the advanced hardware efi. The advanced rip will cost me an add'l $500.

What am I losing by going with the base system?

Ikon is going to pitch me the CPP650....is that a different animal than the KM6500 I keep seeing?

My guess is that if the ricoh 900 is more than the rest i am not even going to include it in my list....this is not my money, its a printshop within a corporation, so all they will see is a monthly expense and how it compares to my current $730 lease.

 

[Craig]

You will loose speed with the non integrated Fiery, I'm not posative but you may loose impose and compose as well.

Speaking from experience, get everything you can afford now. Also I will stand corrected but I bet the CPP650 is a re-skinned KM 6500.

 

[vwrome]

I am sure at that price you are real close to a C900. It would be worth checking into.

 

[smatros]

If looking at the KM, then consider only 6501 which has many improved issues. If you plan to run larger paper formats and heavier stocks, this machine is pretty limited.
I do not know the c900 or the ikon.
The x700 is not a bad machine, but it is very picky on papers, if you want to have really good results you need to print on xerox paper only. We run it, had loads of issues within first 4 months but it is running quite ok now. Registration / consistency is within 1mm (on top border), colors are ok (when printing on Xerox paper). The 252 (or the 260, which I am considering for the 2nd machine now) on the other hand is an improoved 250 - great colors and output, takes a lot of "unusual" (offset) materials at 200-300 grams, but has no tight registration and is intended mainly for sizes a3-sra3 (depends on finishing).

It depends a lot on what kind of job / paper you intend to run, how broad paper stock portfolio you need and what is the thing your customers expect (media variety, color accuracy, ...)

Although I would like to say differently: after several problems we've had with Xerox, and thorough market research, I did not find any real competition to Xerox in this class (we have a very various print jobs, ranging from business cards to fliers or printing on plastic). Also the support improved after several interventions, so we continue to stick with Xerox for now.

 

[Craig]

Smartos,
Have you tried any of these papers?
Condat - Nekoosa - Stora Enso Futura

We have run all through our 8000AP with success. The Condat may be easier to get on your side of the pond since it is made in France.

 

[smatros]

Have you tried any of these papers?
Condat - Nekoosa - Stora Enso Futura

We have run all through our 8000AP with success. The Condat may be easier to get on your side of the pond since it is made in France.

Tried several brands / types. Some of them work ok, but the print quality (especially of photos on a brochure) was at least 20% better on Colotech comparing to anything else. This is why we try to put the majority of jobs on Colotech now.

The 700 has completely different tech of putting ink to paper then any other Xerox device, (works at much lower temperatures), which is why it is so picky at materials.
However, thank you for the advice, will try to get some of these papers for test (other user experience is always welcome) - what weights you use?

 

[VTsignguy]

Tried several brands / types. Some of them work ok, but the print quality (especially of photos on a brochure) was at least 20% better on Colotech comparing to anything else. This is why we try to put the majority of jobs on Colotech now.

The 700 has completely different tech of putting ink to paper then any other Xerox device, (works at much lower temperatures), which is why it is so picky at materials.
However, thank you for the advice, will try to get some of these papers for test (other user experience is always welcome) - what weights you use?

Currently we are using standard hammermill 32 and 60lb for brochures and smooth via and scroll tan for menus..these are our 2 biggest usages. We have been using strathmore writing wove 88lb for business cards. I am assuming these papers will work still, and i will meet with my LM salesman once we get closer to a purchase.

We have one particular odd paper that we run out coupons on to prevent counterfiting. It is a snowflake(??) vertical ( the mill escapes me here at home) that has lined grooves in it...works fine on our CPP, but i am not sure how the Xerox would like it.

 

[VTsignguy]

Has anyone used the Splash RPX-iii with the efi integrated rip? I really am not confident that the command workstation will do any better on our macs than the version we are using now does.

 

[dynamicprinter]

I've been running a Xerox 252 for the last year and can run just about anything paper wise through it. I have the integrated or base rip w/extra memory, only complaint I have is that some light shades of blue are off and on card stock the front to back registration is a little excessive but it works for me. The Ikon is a re-badged Konica unless it changed from a year ago. Since Ikon was sold to Ricoh I would be cautious to make sure that they will continue to carry that line of equipment. Compare the service as well, cost per click, etc...
Good Luck

 

[gig0]

If looking at the KM, then consider only 6501 which has many improved issues. If you plan to run larger paper formats and heavier stocks, this machine is pretty limited.
I do not know the c900 or the ikon.

Define heavier stocks. I just ran 5000 12x18 80# cover stock Friday on a c6501 without a jam.

 

[Craig]

Define heavier stocks. I just ran 5000 12x18 80# cover stock Friday on a c6501 without a jam.

Simplex or duplex? Not doubting just an honest question. Also how long was the run?

 

[gig0]

most of the stuff I run is duplex. I've even got the settings down to 136gsm in order to speed it up. 2 lots of 2500 each. I can even run duplex on 100# cover, even though the paper weight settings won't allow it. Last week I came across 10pt and 12 pt index for the first time but couldn't get it to work in duplex mode.

 

[X33]

Ikon is going to pitch me the CPP650....is that a different animal than the KM6500 I keep seeing?

did you know that IKON is now owned by RICOH?

I'm wondering why IKON will still pitch you a KM machine if they can't get any parts or service any more.

 

[VTsignguy]

did you know that IKON is now owned by RICOH?

I'm wondering why IKON will still pitch you a KM machine if they can't get any parts or service any more.

i do know tat they are owned by Ricoh...as for parts for KM machines...as far as i know they still support. They are supporting my CPP500.

They should be here in 30 minutes to pitch...

 

[StrikTenn913]

did you know that IKON is now owned by RICOH?

I'm wondering why IKON will still pitch you a KM machine if they can't get any parts or service any more.

If their agreement is like Canon/IKON's, they can still purchase parts for a few years.

 

[VTsignguy]

If their agreement is like Canon/IKON's, they can still purchase parts for a few years.

Ikon is still in a relationship with KM. Per ikon, canon walked away from the table, ricoh did not push them out. So they will sell me a CPP 660 and support it for the entire lease.

Just reading the numbers now.....its like trying to lease a car...i have no idea how much i will be paying if i go with the 660.

 

[StrikTenn913]

That relationship between IKON / KM is questionable in my mind. I have heard that they will not be an authorized dealer anymore sometime this year. Think about it, Ricoh made no mistake during it's acquisition that it intended to convert other engine installs into Ricoh engine installs.

 

[VTsignguy]

That relationship between IKON / KM is questionable in my mind. I have heard that they will not be an authorized dealer anymore sometime this year. Think about it, Ricoh made no mistake during it's acquisition that it intended to convert other engine installs into Ricoh engine installs.

They were VERY interested in me signing BEFORE mar24th....so you may be on to something. I asked them why they did not pitch me a c900 and they said the c900 was 3 times the cost of the CPP660.

I was confused at best