Illustrator vs. Packedge/Artpro

[wesley]

Here's a question to the experienced audience. Given the Esko tools available in Illustrator now, How comfortable is everyone with working a job completely in CS4 directly through to tiffs using BS without the use of PackEdge or Artpro? If you have licenses of either or both high-end editors what benefits will the Illustrator only workflow provide? I suppose this question really depends on the kind of work done, so I am primarily interested in Packaging for flexo shops with fairly difficult work beyond 6 color including spot channels in images, trapping, bitmaps, spot to process blends, you know the rest.
Thanks for your comments.

 

[marc3llo]

Hi Wesley,

I worked about 4 years with Packedge and then I switched to Illustrator because I changed my job. If you are doing packeging and your printing system is flexography, stick to Esko, there is nothing like that and I can't imagine how you can set up different screens in the same colour or different Lpi, etc..

Another thing I feel as a user is that PAckedge is designed for this purpose and you realised when you use the spread and choke tool, how you can change a colour globally, how to clean the colours in the colour factory, ect...

I can't wait to go back to Packedge in a way and not even Despkack can do anything about it. And speaking of which, I think ESko is killing the repro houses in the way we knew them.. now a lot more people can afford the deskpack plugin and bob'your uncle.

Cheers
Marcelo

 

[nsk]

Illustrator Vs Artpro

Illustrator Vs Artpro

Illustrator has grown several times and included lot of Artpro facilities in it. With esko plugins you should be able to execute any job. But both the Illustrator+Esko so far is not equal to Artpro. It is only a compromise.

 

[PDL]

Hello Marcello,

With the DeskPack for Ai Ink manager you can easily select one ink and change it for another, mapping, or select all objects using a specific ink then change that ink using your colour palette. The Esko Ink Mix tool for Ai allows for combining specific percentages of colours used in the file to create a new swatch in the Ai Colour Palette, much like in PackEdge's Colour Factory.
Also with the ScreenX plugin for Ai you can apply different screenings on an object based level using EskoArtwork screening, hence any object in the file, and any of the inks in that object, can have a completely different dot, LPI, or angle assigned. ---> http://www.esko.com/MKT-Web-Files/DeskPack/screenX/screenX.html

peter

 

[Kristian]

We still use ArtPro as our preferred format internally. We only use DeskPack if we are sending out artwork to someone who cannot use ArtPro.

DeskPack plugins have got much better but overall, ArtPro has much more features has a better ease of use (but that may just be because I use it more than Illustrator).

Kristian

 

[Julia D]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but how do you send a single separation from Illustrator cs5 using the Launch Workflow? We often need to send only one colour plate of a multi-plate job, but it always sends all of them.

I'm sure it's simple and I'll kick myself for not figuring it out...

 

[PDL]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but how do you send a single separation from Illustrator cs5 using the Launch Workflow? We often need to send only one colour plate of a multi-plate job, but it always sends all of them.

Piece of cake with the Automation Engine 10 upgrade to BackStage/DeskPack. Options in your workflows can be published as Public Parameters that will allow for output option choices to be selected when sending from Illustrator. Watch this movie about what's new in AE10 - Automation Engine: Prepress Workflow Automation - pay particular attention to the portion about the Shuttle application about midway in. The Shuttle is now incorporated into and available for Illustrator.

Contact your EskoArtwork rep or Support about getting your upgrade to AE10. - Contact EskoArtworks with a question or remark

 

[marc3llo]

@eskopdl

If i have to buy all those plug-ins, I'd rather prefer buying Packedge, much faster and reliable than a bunch of plug-ins installed in a software made by another company.

Cheers
Marcelo

 

[wesley]

Plug-ins Eskopdl

Plug-ins Eskopdl

That is were I am at with CS and Plugins. We currently own PackEdge and BoostX, Dynamic content, BarX plugins etc. . I try to stay on top of the latest offerings Esko makes available. Perhaps Eskopdl would help us understand the marketing and direction Esko is targeting. We all would LOVE the Illustrator round trip which would make this whole discussion mute, but we are missing the font engine in BS unless you are a rocket scientist, and just like punishment. I prefer to work in PE as the Adobe app is at the mercy of the plug-ins and Vice-versa. Even on a brand new machine with gobs of RAM, Illustrator will hang on a big file with lots going on. Not so in PE. Help us understand eskopdl.

 

[Chief_1975]

"Perhaps Eskopdl would help us understand the marketing and direction Esko is targeting."

This will be interesting to see if we get a honest answer, as from what I can see traditional repro companies are no longer the target audience in favour of pandering to the big FMCG who want the repro stage eliminated with design agencies taking care of this free of charge with automated solutions.

Stand by.............

 

[marc3llo]

Exactly, Esko killed the traditional repro houses with this plug-in available for more and more people everyday. They opened the market to a lot new players, so, prices are down or even free fee if you get the whole business.
But still repro houses have to get the files from the Design studio (with the trapX later in Illustrator) and correct them in order to get a good printed result, but without getting any money at all for this, because the file is has been "repro"....

 

[Julia D]

Ah, it was all about Managing Public Parameters. There are so many different places to change various settings. Between Pilot and the various Illustrator and Acrobat plugins, you can spend all day trying to find stuff. (We have some Esko components and some Prinergy components.)

 

[Talking Tech]

Illustrator (DeskPack) vs PackEdge/ArtPro

Illustrator (DeskPack) vs PackEdge/ArtPro

The problem (one of many) Esko has is selling new "seats" of ArtPro or PackEdge to new users. DeskPack is fairly affordable compared to the $25k+ that a seat of ArtPro or PackEdge costs. The people purchasing these apps are those that already own it and need more, or a new customer being driven by their customer by requiring ArtPro files back.

DeskPack offers some decent add-on capabilities to Illustrator, though limited in some cases. The TrapX plugin will provide an overall trap to the file and the results are usually pretty good, but on some complex files they may not be entirely what you want. At that point, you have limited choices. One is to try to alter the TrapX settings and re-trap again. If that doesn't work, you might be SOL. Esko also sells an interactive trapper CS plug-in at a hefty add-on price. It allows you to trap/re-trap specific elements without re-doing the entire file. By the time you are done buying all the CS plugins (there are PhotoShop plugins too), the cost of a ArtPro or DeskPack seat doesn't look so bad.

Obvious benefits to staying in Illustrator is that the file is still a Illustrator file, not some proprietary file you can't do much with unless you own ArtPro or PackEdge. Most repro houses want it that way, but most design shops and converters often prefer to have files back that are accessible in standard applications. Hope this long-winded diatribe makes sense.

 

[wesley]

Esko PDL

Esko PDL

Silence from Esko PDL.
We're still waiting for a reply.

 

[WI-Flexo]

Esko PDL

Esko PDL

As a user of ALL the discussed options I also would love to hear EskoPDl's take on the discussion!

 

[Chief_1975]

Well I will give EskoPDI the benefit of the doubt for now as he or she hasn't posted anything since last year, however if I was a betting man I wouldn't be betting on getting a response anytime soon!

I have never understood why either Esko / Artwork systems never slashed the prices of Package / ArtPro years ago before they merged to get a dominate foothold in the market over one another. If either was more affordable there wouldn't be such a appetite for the cheaper Illustrator add ons that when added all together aren't that cheap!

 

[Talking Tech]

I have never understood why either Esko / Artwork systems never slashed the prices of Package / ArtPro years ago before they merged to get a dominate foothold in the market over one another. If either was more affordable there wouldn't be such a appetite for the cheaper Illustrator add ons that when added all together aren't that cheap!

Esko considers PackEdge, and now ArtPro too, to be their high-end editors. Within the next couple of years, they expect a new replacement for them. Reason is, they are not entirely the same application on the PC (PackEdge) and Mac (ArtPro). The new app, whatever it will be called, will have high-end functionality like the two programs mentioned, but will be precisely the same on both platforms.

The PDF editor the company has, Neo, could potentially become the new high-end editing application, and like all Esko products, basically be a Chinese menu of options, ie Neo Basic with various add-ons for packaging functionality -- trapping, step-and-repeat, ink mix, etc. This all remains to be seen what the customer will be offered, but you can be assured it won't come cheaply.

EskoPDL may be a Esko employee, although I don't think they employ anyone other than a sales rep in Canada. But who knows. Guaranteed the person is not highly knowledgable.

Regarding pricing, they had to distinguish between the "low-end" solution and "high-end" solution. I agree the price of ArtPro and DeskPack should come down but I don't think that will happen. There are a lot of unused ArtPro seats out there today, but since the licensing is now well controlled, there is little chance of getting a seat at a bargain-basement price.

 

[yojimbo5]

my 2 cents on AI vs Packedge/Artpro

my 2 cents on AI vs Packedge/Artpro

I work hard in flexo. And now I work about 95% in ADOBE CS4 and 5 but mostly 4 now due to problems with AE 10. I used to work in, PCC, Barco,and ARTPRO, but in reality most of our work starts in AI, so who really needs these high end systems anymore. The deskpack plug ins enhance AI but really, besides the Dynamic Barcodes, you can work any job thru with
Illustrator and Photoshop. Yes instant trapper is "sexy", but that just makes trapping easier for novices.