Ineptitude

[gordo]

PS - In my day, every problem in Lithography, well almost could be cured by a bottle of "Stale Beer"

In North America it's a bit of Jack Daniels in the fountain solution that solves all.

best, gordon p

 

[Servicetech]

Isn't it very aggravating when one tries to cover up one's lack of competence by blaming the equipment. I see this over and over again. It even takes a certain amount of skill to wipe one's ass, but I'm sure these people would blame their lack of hygeine on the toilet paper. I've recently experienced this one instance, where a sheetfed offset operator got in the door by overstating his experience, and I swear I wouldn't let him operate my Xerox copier.

Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with this scenario. I cannot remember the number of service calls I've been on over this. Operators bricking jobs in the delivery, and trying to find a fault with a dryer that is fully functional, delivery crashes because they "didn't hear the pile alarm" (more like ignored). The list goes on and on.

Much of it can also be blamed on management/supervisors IMO, for example, in the push to get work completed, the work was being backed up wet, causing the mechanical double sheet detector to mark, so the detector is opened up so you could run plywood through it. Although this situation has gotten much better as ink, coating, and drying technology has improved, I have disassembled and un-jammed so many presses due to this exact scenario that I lost count of them long ago.

I am also seeing some of this in the Industry I am in now, the push to increase production can take a large chunk out of ones posterior when it is not done properly.

 

[spigot]

From the top

Suppliers have control and have been adding to raw costs without fail every year. I was privy to some financial information from a paper company a while back and I can honestly say they are making alot of money. Doing just fine. They are holding people to ransom In some cases.

Service agreements - The unique "business cases" of buying a machine and being locked into service and support by the manufacturer isnt always that great, at the plant i work at it also means alot of out inks and chemicals must come from them too, and they are not the cheapest nor the best.

I have never, ever, worked for a boss who has ever said they are doing well, doing ok, or doing acceptably.
Its always "poor"
" the industry is over serviced"
"We didnt make a profit last month"
etc etc etc and so on. There are fewer bosses still in touch with the people on the floor. Even the ones who came through the ranks forget quickly about what it is really like on the floor, once they are getting their car, phone and 50% extra pay for some management role.

Management roles - Too many people are very good at creating roles for them selves. For example Sales support, IT, Administration Management Assistant etc. I see them walking and talking a good 1/3 of the week. Attending functions, "meetings with clients" that last 4 hours and no sale happens. This overhead is all the pay rises printers arent getting x1000.

While us on the presses are sweating, running a 4/4 job on crap paper that wont feed with only 200 makereadies on a 5000 sheet run. Only to find one of these "sales support" idiots signed the proof without knowing what bleeds were. Or a page was wrong, yet the numbers were right. or something.

Machines I have never found a machine that can do it all. Some are better than others.

Also with pay rises - some say its better to forgo a pay rise and still have a job. That attitude, and the ability for employers to take on 2 year expereinced useless imports who are simply terrible tradesmen has ruined wages in this industry. At what point do people start saying "enough is enough"? I know of printers who left the industry because of mortgage pressure, for example. If many good people leave, the door is open for more half assed idtiots to join up, who will work for whatever is on the table. And so the cycle continues.
I have been thinking about getting out alot recently. Im only 10 years expereince but i can make more money turning a lollipop stick for traffic control. Boring as batshit but we only work to make money right?

Just my .02c

 

[Cmd-P]

Also with pay rises - some say its better to forgo a pay rise and still have a job.

I tell that to myself and my wife every payday!
(I also tell myself: I love my job, I love my job, I love my job...)

Management roles - Too many people are very good at creating roles for them selves.

I remember a Customer Service Representative who, with the understanding that their role was to "make corrections", would do so even when jobs were already approved by the customer.
Spigot, your observations are so true.
Personally, I've scratched two words from my vocabulary: Retirement, and Security.
If you really end up going into Lollipop-Traffic Control, at a busy intersection, you'll find me on the corner holding a cup, begging for spare change.
m.

 

[EBEN]

With all said by everybody, I have to tell you guys that I am in the fortunate position of having a job where I am appreciated by my Boss for my skill as a Pressman. It took 18 years of blood and tears to get here. I believe that it is my duty to make sure i'm the best in what i do, to make sure that the think long and hard before trying to replace me. With shops closing all around us, it is our duty to look after ourselfs, learn every day new tricks of the trade, ask and ask untill i know more than the next guy, make sure my Boss remember me when payday arrives

 

[blazini]

Touche, But I truly believe a skilled operator can usually make just about anything work, I am not asking for the impossible, just a back to basics approach to offset. When I used to run a press cable ties and duct tape were my best friends

I agree 100% but even the best pressman can do better with a press that's maintained well.

As the industry matures, it is a part of the evolutionary process that incompetency will creep in. The skilled craftsman who had to set keys and do more manual make ready are being replaced, for lack of a better term, button pushers. I say put very high value on the tradesmen that have acquired their knowledges through experience. They are becoming a rare breed, so it is important to do the weeding out initially when selecting an employee in the hiring process. D

Incompetent people are usually carried by overly competent people. The best management knows how to mix them together in press crews and make it work. It certainly isn't fair but I eat this shit every day, for less money than the "more experienced" operators that I trained to run the press that I just finished kicking ass on. Experience gets plenty of pressman in the door, talent is what keeps the doors open. Unfortunately it's hard to put talent on a resume and not too many people put on there that the reason they are looking for another job is that they ran entirely too much garbage, lost customers , and cost the place a fortune in waste. It's the industry's own fault though. They'll hold back that last $1.00/hour just so the other guy can cost them $200 for every blanket they smash and 3-5x that for every roll of garbage they run. The mentality that "money is not a motivator" has cost companies an awful lot of it.

 

[Servicetech]

I feel justified in my decision to accept another job offer, a considerably better one.

I just put my 2 weeks notice in where I work late this week, I've never seen anything like it, they nearly panicked. They were not specific, but they are putting a package together to try and change my mind, I don't foresee staying.

I wasn't expecting a reaction as pronounced as this, but apparently I was correct in my gut feeling that I was carrying far more of a workload than my title or salary justified.

On the equipment discussion, a big problem with most of the old equipment it the difficulty related to finding someone who can efficiently run one of them. I'll give a couple examples of what I'm talking about. Some time ago a customer had a couple Komori presses and a couple multi-color Harris presses. It was no trouble to find a qualified operator for the Komori's but the Harris presses were becoming idle because of a couple retirements and the inability to find replacement operators.

The Harris presses would print an immaculate dot and register perfectly, albeit at a slower speed. The company was forced to add another shift on the newer equipment and sold the Harris equipment, and this happened about 13 years ago.

Just look at the new equipment, there are no more levers, far less mechanical adjustments. I know of numerous customers that are "down" if an automatic plate changer doesn't work or a sheet scanner won't scan. I'm not saying I agree with it, but would you pay an "operator" a "pressman's" wage?

 

[cheetoh]

"but would you pay an "operator" a "pressman's" wage?"

I understand what you are saying, but where I work, management can't tell the differance between the Operator and the Pressman....

 

[ondemandbindery]

Well it certainly could seem frustrating to be in that situation. But you honestly have to look at yourself and understand why you are bothered by it. When I worked for someone my goal was to learn anything and everything. But what I figured out was there was an opportunity around every corner to better myself in the Industry. It doesn't justify people misrepresenting their knowledge to get hired but it was never in my control unless I had a chip in the game on hiring an associate and I was pretty good at sniffing out the deceit.
Look at it this way. You have a ton of knowledge so you can make use of it somehow to earn a paycheck. That was the conclusion I came to any how and it has always opened up doors and given me opportunities.

Good luck,

John Weaver