Ink Flow and Roller Setting

Alois Senefelder

Well-known member
Hello fellow Lithographers

Enlightenment !!!!!!! some PDFs

"I hope you will find it of interest and value "


Regards, Alois
 

Attachments

  • Ink Flow # 1184.pdf
    533.4 KB · Views: 357
  • Ink Flow # 2185.pdf
    1 MB · Views: 320
  • Inking Roller Setting # 1186.pdf
    1.2 MB · Views: 426
Hello fellow Lithographers

Enlightenment !!!!!!! some PDFs

"I hope you will find it of interest and value "


Regards, Alois

Regarding lateral distribution timing. For the press in the PDF, when this is changed, with the intent of evening the ink film from top to bottom on the plate, does that timing change mean that all oscillating rollers move laterally together? Also on that press, do you know if changing the lateral timing of the oscillation has any affect on the timing of the ductor roller that takes ink from the ink fountain roller?

On the presses I have seen, the timing of the different oscillating rollers are staggered.

Thanks for any clarification.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reciprocation !

Reciprocation !

Hello Mr. E. Nikkanen,

The amount of reciprocation of the Vibrator Rollers a typical (0- 35mm) is independent from the Phasing of the Vibrator Rollers. The Vibrator Rollers change lateral direction, at least once every Plate Cylinder revolution when the Roller Trains are over the Plate Cylinder Gap.

At the same time the Ductor Roller contacts its Vibrator Roller, which minimize "Ductor Roller Shock" into the Roller Train.

Each set of Vibrator Rollers alternate lateral direction (Left to Right/ Right to Left)

Regards, Alois
 
Hello Mr. E. Nikkanen,

The amount of reciprocation of the Vibrator Rollers a typical (0- 35mm) is independent from the Phasing of the Vibrator Rollers. The Vibrator Rollers change lateral direction, at least once every Plate Cylinder revolution when the Roller Trains are over the Plate Cylinder Gap.

At the same time the Ductor Roller contacts its Vibrator Roller, which minimize "Ductor Roller Shock" into the Roller Train.

Each set of Vibrator Rollers alternate lateral direction (Left to Right/ Right to Left)

Regards, Alois

Alois, Thanks for the description of how the timing is set on these kinds of sheetfed presses. It makes a lot of sense to time things while the Form Rollers are over the gap. Good trick. I tend to think in terms of how web presses work and since they have very small gaps, such a neat trick can't be used but it is nice to know.

Thanks again. Erik
 
Just the other day I was searching the web looking for information on how the lateral movement of the oscillating rollers can affect where the ink density maxes out from the gripper to tail. I've found a lot of information about how the inks density does vary from gripper to tail and that adjusting the the oscillating roller can affect this phenomenon, however I haven't found anything that clearly explains the hows and whys of this.

I know that this has something to do with the position of the oscillator in relation to the plate cylinder gap. But what exactly does that mean? Why is the density higher on the leading edge if the oscillator is one position and then higher in the center if the oscillator is in a different position? From the fluid dynamics perspective, how does changing the lateral movement of a roller in the inking system cause more or less ink to be applied in the circumferential direction of the plate cylinder?
 
From the fluid dynamics perspective, how does changing the lateral movement of a roller in the inking system cause more or less ink to be applied in the circumferential direction of the plate cylinder?

This is exactly the question for which I have been looking for an answer. It made no sense to me that lateral movement could have an affect on how the plate got inked but since so many people were saying that it does, I am assuming that there must be a reason.

All too often, phenomena like this have some steps that printers can do to help reduce the problems but it is hard to find credible explanations of why those steps help. This is one of those situations.

So far, I have only some possibilities which can also be far fetched.

1. It may be that the ink film split ratio is different for when a roller is not moving laterally than when it is moving. This could result in changes to how the ink is stored on the rollers as the oscillating rollers go through their cycle. This change in ink storage might then affect the amount of ink applied to the plate. Just looking at the oscillating roller as it changes direction it is easy to see that the texture of the ink on the roller changes. So it might be possible that the split also changes.

2. Changing the direction of the oscillating rollers will cause an increase of load on the gear train of the roller train. Maybe this change in load affects ink transfer to the plate.

3. Maybe there is a mechanical linkage that when the timing of the oscillating rollers is changed, it also changes the timing of the ductor roller. It does make sense that if the ductor roller timing is changed, that that would cause a sudden charge of ink into the system which might hit the plate at specific locations.

Possibilities are not real causes and sometimes the possibilities can be very far fetched. Most of the time, the actual cause turns out to be something much more simple but was not seen at first.

Anyway, I would like to know too.
 
Reciprocation !!!

Reciprocation !!!

Hello fellow Lithographers,

The reciprocation of Vibrator Rollers in the Ink Train -- is to prevent " Hydrodynamic Instability" more commonly known as "Ribbing" the next function is the prevention of
"Ghosting " --- Don't forget gentlemen we are dealing with a "Non - Newtonian Fluid"


Regards, Alois
 
Last edited:
Here's some more info that refers to the fact that lateral adjustment can effect circumferential density but unfortunately no explanation as to why.

GATF training video from the 80's maybe
YouTube - OffSet Training Video 2/3
 

Attachments

  • Handbook of print media p238.pdf
    131.8 KB · Views: 257
About ink transfer. When you look at the press in movement, you can see that oscillating rollers are moving laterally the most when they (and metering rollers) are "above" the front and end side of the plate, and they have the least lateral movement when they come to the end of their movement. At that time metering rollers are above the middle side of the plate. So when they are changing direction they have the least lateral movement and that's when more ink comes to the plate. Less ink comes down when two different forces affect ink (lateral, circumferential), than only one (circumferential). If we want more ink on the front side of the plate, we have to set oscillating rollers to have the least lateral movement when they are "above" front side of the plate. In simple words..

This is what Erik already wrote, but in another way :)
 
In simple terms

In simple terms

So in plain language even a prepress guy can understand, if we want to change the heaviest ink charge from gripper edge to middle of sheet how would you adjust the oscillator on our Heidelberg 72SP to do that?

We've had a problem with large density differences from gripper to middle to tail in the past and never got it completely resolved, as much as 10 points gripper to middle and another 5-10 middle to tail so that gripper would be 15-20 points higher than the tail and this only about 17" apart on a 19" sheet!

And now we also have a problem with banding across solid areas about 3/4 back on sheet that we didn't used to get. This on same unit all the time, a solid PMS ink.
 
im not sure of what fluid dynamic principles come into play here but i am sure that the results can be very significant. Ive alterd this setting enought times over the years to say with absolute and measurable certainty that it will change the circumfrential distribution of an ink film.
 

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