Inline score and fold

[ondemandbindery]

Hi John,

Max width on folder is 23", so 19 x 25 sheet runs with 19" lead edge and 25" side guide.

19 x 25 was grain 25 (not the best, grain was against the spine).

1st unit: 19 x 25 folds to 12.5 x 19, perf on exit.

2nd unit: 12.5 x 19 folds to 9.5 x 12.5 score on exit (here is where the end play caused the splitting).

3rd unit: 9.5 x 12.5 folds to 6.375 x 9.5, high folio lip.

Is that enough info to earn a tip?

Al

Dont score in the second unit. Keep an open mind and try it. You will end up with better fold registration. There goes away that pesky splitting thing.....................

 

[Al Ferrari]

Thanks for the tip John,

Of course it will avoid the splitting due to incorrectly set scoring shafts and collars, as in the embarrassing case I described.

But it will not give more accurate folding in the case of demanding jobs with crossovers across different signatures, especially when the grain is against the spine. No way! I do a lot of such work, and get excellent results with needle wet scoring precisely in line with blade scoring.

The basis for scoring in preparation to folding is that the stock is weakened at a location corresponding to where the fold will take place. The success of it depends on having the two correspond precisely. The combination of the two scoring methods I use is most effective in weakening the stock where needed.

Do you actually get good results on such jobs with the method you suggest?

Al

 

[ondemandbindery]

Thanks for the tip John,

Of course it will avoid the splitting due to incorrectly set scoring shafts and collars, as in the embarrassing case I described.

But it will not give more accurate folding in the case of demanding jobs with crossovers across different signatures, especially when the grain is against the spine. No way! I do a lot of such work, and get excellent results with needle wet scoring precisely in line with blade scoring.

The basis for scoring in preparation to folding is that the stock is weakened at a location corresponding to where the fold will take place. The success of it depends on having the two correspond precisely. The combination of the two scoring methods I use is most effective in weakening the stock where needed.

Do you actually get good results on such jobs with the method you suggest?

Al

OK.......................................

 

[MalcolmBliss]

I've never had to score a 16 or 32 page sig. in the second unit. Only if the form ends up being perfect bound or cut to finish, then I use a perf to let the air out because we don't own a 16 page bank at my current place of buisness, we have a Stahl VFZ 52. It does o.k., but there's no substitute for another bank of rollers for this fold.

 

[ondemandbindery]

I have used a wet score to flatten a signature for the stitcher but if it was more than 1 form I had too much of a conscience and didn't do it because of the stack problem on the binder. I use a 1/4 folder for the final fold anyway. No head wrinkles and run like butter.



JW

 

[rbailleu]

I've never had to score a 16 or 32 page sig. in the second unit. Only if the form ends up being perfect bound or cut to finish, then I use a perf to let the air out because we don't own a 16 page bank at my current place of buisness, we have a Stahl VFZ 52. It does o.k., but there's no substitute for another bank of rollers for this fold.

so in regards to a 16 page signature your opinion is a 4/4/4 folder of any brand would be better than a comparable 4/knife/knife of the same brand. or only a 4/4/knife? just curious as I am changing the way I run a couple projects and was considering a 4/knife/knife machine but might consider a 16 page right angle for our current machine.

 

[ondemandbindery]

It just becomes a majorly open ended question. If I was going to go out and by a folder I would not think of replacing a 16 page unit with a quarter folder. With the 16 page unit you have the ability to make multiple folds and slitting/perfing.

With that being said, the ideal situation would be to have a 4/4/4 and a 1/4 folder. Something else to keep in mind is when you use a 1/4 folder the finished product will not be as compressed versus using a 16 page depending on your imposition layout. With the 16 page you have to be very careful with head wrinkles and that wont be a problem with a 1/4 folder. Ideally to have a crushing mechanism for the end of your folder eliminates the "soft fold" handling issues but they are an additional expense.

It all boils down to your volume. If you have a crap ton of signature folding you can make the job a one man operation and not beat up the operator while doing so. Since owning my shop and really getting to look at numbers there is no doubt the gadgets pay for themselves if you have the work.

HTH,

John Weaver

 

[apalko]

I've recently purchased the a tri creaser from technifold but am running into a problem with cracking on 80lb text weights. For 100lb text and up so far has been great, however the 80lb which I run a lot of does not work. I actually run into a problem of the sheet splitting. Either we are running too much pressure and the sheet splits or I'm not running enough pressure and cannot get a decent score. We run 100% UV with full coverage.

As has been mentioned, with light stocks (usually under 5-6pt or about 100# text) you are in questionable territory for scoring (creasing). An 80# offset litho stock is about 4pt; sometimes a crease will eliminate the cracking while other times it will only be slightly reduced, no matter what process or product you use. If you're stuck with a particular stock, try both grain directions with a score. Often you can get better score (crease) results against the grain on light stocks. With an 80# digital stock however you will probably get better results. Most digital text stocks are a little bulkier so as to withstand the rigors of digital print processes. The result is (surprisingly) a very good score. So yes it's worth experimenting on the light stocks but as has also been mentioned, if the results don't meet your expectations, the best strategy for text weight is to fold with the grain.

You can call our Tech Support line at 877-224-4681 option 2 and we'll get back to you during business hours to review the specific job you're running.

 

[apalko]

@ondemandbindery Here's the set screw tip you refer to:
Micro Perforating Tip for Bindery and Finishing Equipment