KM AccurioPress 12000, Xerox Iridesse, Ricoh 9210 and Canon VP 10100

[BookPrinter1]

Hi everyone!

I mainly print books, small runs, and I print 300.000 pages A3 color monthly.

Currently I've 2 KM bizhub PRESS C1100 and it's time to replace them.

I need do decide between: KM AccurioPress 12000, Xerox Iridesse, Ricoh 9210 and Canon VP 10100.

What it your opinions about this machines?

All the best!

 

[Ynot_UK]

If you stick with KM, also look at the recently introduced C7100 series. The evolutionary path being C1100 - C6100 - C7100, this is the most recent incarnation of what you already have. @jwheeler on here has had the C7090 for a couple of months and will no doubt be along at some point.

Last year's toner issues aside, have you been pleased with your C1100s and the service you've seen over their lifespan?
If you have a good existing relationship with your dealer/OEM then there's value in maintaining that.
(equally, if has been lacklustre, the power is now in your elbow to do something different).

Are you looking to replace 2 machines with 2 machines? I guess the redundancy may be important to you.
The C4080 may be worth looking at too, particularly if you're spreading that workload over 2 machines.

 

[Sertech]

I service the canon 10100. Good machine. I have one 10000 (previous version) that just broke 35 million, 1 8000 that has 27 million, 1 8000 with around 10 million, and another 8000 with around 7 million. We sell the ricoh as well. I have no experience with it, but from what I've heard the guys who work on it, they seem to be good machines as well. Comes down to cost and print quality preference. Canon is more glossy, Ricoh more flat

 

[BookPrinter1]

I service the canon 10100. Good machine. I have one 10000 (previous version) that just broke 35 million, 1 8000 that has 27 million, 1 8000 with around 10 million, and another 8000 with around 7 million. We sell the ricoh as well. I have no experience with it, but from what I've heard the guys who work on it, they seem to be good machines as well. Comes down to cost and print quality preference. Canon is more glossy, Ricoh more flat

Thanks for the reply: my 2 KM C1100 had 13 millions each, mainly A3 prints, but they really can't hang on any more.
I find Canon 10100 really reliable, but not so fast and their lifetime is 27 millions A4, so they will last the same as the KM. On the other hand Ricoh is faster, looks reliable and robust, and bigger lifetime.

 

[Sertech]

Thanks for the reply: my 2 KM C1100 had 13 millions each, mainly A3 prints, but they really can't hang on any more.
I find Canon 10100 really reliable, but not so fast and their lifetime is 27 millions A4, so they will last the same as the KM. On the other hand Ricoh is faster, looks reliable and robust, and bigger lifetime.

Truthfully. Lifetime is just what the manufacturer says it can do in a month multiplied by 60 months. These 2i have that are beyond rated life blew by. Especially once canon fixed the problems they were having in the fusers. I also work on the smaller imagepress 800/850/910. They are rated for a life of 10 million. I've got one that's still fairly reliable at 18 million. The place could probably save money by replacing it and lowering click charges, but he bought it outright. It'll probably be there until there are no parts to be had

 

[jwheeler]

@BookPrinter1 , are you going from two machines to one machine? Regardless of which brand you go with, redundancy is highly recommended, especially with your volume. Two of the C7100's would be better than a single C14000. You'll get 200ppm instead of 140ppm, and you'll have backup (plus it will cost around the same). Same with Xerox...two of the Versant 3100's would be better than a single Iridesse, and so on for the other brands.

The 4 machines you listed are all on par with each other from each manufacturer. I won't try to sway you towards one or the other. Most people here have not both of a current model in their shop...usually only have one brand.

I always tell people that local service matters most. If you've been happy with KM, stick with them. You can also get their ORU training so you can replace the most common components on your own, and the techs will leave a pallet of parts with you. The other brands have the same kind of program. If you're considering the other brands, just make sure they have good local service offices and local warehouses so parts are easily accessible. Otherwise, no matter which machine you have, at some point a major component needs to be replaced, and you could be waiting a week or more while the part ships in.

 

[Yes U Can]

Thanks for the reply: my 2 KM C1100 had 13 millions each, mainly A3 prints, but they really can't hang on any more.
I find Canon 10100 really reliable, but not so fast and their lifetime is 27 millions A4, so they will last the same as the KM. On the other hand Ricoh is faster, looks reliable and robust, and bigger lifetime.

Just a short reaction. It's known the Canon is not the fastest instead it's the most productive one. IMHO that's the key thing running a business.

 

[Craig]

Replacing a Xerox 1000i and a V180 with Ricoh C9210 and C7210SX. We were very impressed when we visited printshops for the demo's.

 

[cqb1988]

I bought both c12000 and C9210 recently. konica is half of the price of Ricoh. might just cancel the Ricoh, since it took a few months already, Konica is coming next week. will do a comparison if I ended up keeping both.

 

[Mr Production Print]

Can you get toner for your KMs? The shortage is really dragging on in the UK. The volume of 300k could be handled by all those devices. Do you have any book jacket requirements (leading to duplex banner printing). The Ricoh c7200 might be worthy of consideration. It's much less than the c9200 and can handle the volume, plus duplex sheets to 700mm. If you need two devices for resilience, a Ricoh c5300 or light production back-up may be interesting.

 

[BookPrinter1]

Just forget KM! No toner, no assistance... total caos. I lost a lot of money because of them.

I've been a KM client for 10 years, with 6 production machines installed. They even put my company on drupa 2016 as a success story. And I turned off all KM machines, recently. A complete disrespect for the client, and lot of lies.

I feel relieved now... the last few times with KM have tired me a lot.

 

[richsweeney]

Just forget KM! No toner, no assistance... total caos. I lost a lot of money because of them.

I've been a KM client for 10 years, with 6 production machines installed. They even put my company on drupa 2016 as a success story. And I turned off all KM machines, recently. A complete disrespect for the client, and lot of lies.

I feel relieved now... the last few times with KM have tired me a lot.

What did you replace your KM with? I am done with xerox, they have caused me to lose a bunch of money and time. Back ordered toner for ever, bad drums, frequent break downs. On our 5 th year with the versant 180

 

[bcr]

What did you replace your KM with? I am done with xerox, they have caused me to lose a bunch of money and time. Back ordered toner for ever, bad drums, frequent break downs. On our 5 th year with the versant 180

That's a piss take. I'd be withholding full payment of their service invoices

 

[BookPrinter1]

What did you replace your KM with? I am done with xerox, they have caused me to lose a bunch of money and time. Back ordered toner for ever, bad drums, frequent break downs. On our 5 th year with the versant 180

I´ve replace them for Ricoh 9210 for color, and Ricoh 8320 for BW.
So far so good.

 

[printing656]

BookPrinter1, have you noticed the 9210 being a bit picky with toner coverage on coated stocks? It seems very finicky with different coated papers in the 80lb -100lb text range so you have to make minute fuser temp adjustments.

 

[jwheeler]

I bought both c12000 and C9210 recently. konica is half of the price of Ricoh. might just cancel the Ricoh, since it took a few months already, Konica is coming next week. will do a comparison if I ended up keeping both.

Any update on this @cqb1988

 

[cqb1988]

Any update on this @cqb1988

both machines print good quality, however, there are a few things I dislike about my Konica
1 duplex unit, the inverter unit is right beside the fuser, so the paper has to turn 90 degrees before exiting the fuser, which causes a lot of jams. the machine only has 3 million clicks, but 300 jams in the fuser, there are some papers I just can not run on my Konica at all. Ricoh can run whatever paper I throw in without any issues.
2 although the machine seems big enough, they still can't find space to put the charge corona unit above the drum, they become a waste toner collector, Konica machines usually have toner spill problem, so line might show up in the middle of the print during the long.

3 toner will not fuse on some gloss paper regardless of paper weight.

Ricoh is overall a better machine