KM C3080 vs VERSANT 180 vs RICOH 7200 vs CANON C910 vs KM C83HC

Hello, currently looking into options to replace a Konica 1070. We do mostly short runs (50-500 pages) and practically no duplexing. Looking for feedback on any of these machines.

We are quite satisfied with the 1070, which came as an apt replacement for a Xerox 700. Didn't like the J75 Xerox was offering at the time so I'm a bit wary of the Versant... Ricoh and Canon are new to us so I don't know what to think.

Konica are offering both the C3080 or C83HC. I'm afraid the C83HC won't be able to accurately print a regular CMYK job. Some customers might not like the "over the top" saturated vibrant colors... Anyone have feedback on that machine?

We do mostly short runs (under 500 pages) and practically no duplexing. Would the IQ-501 be of any use besides calibration? Is the calibration as accurate as with a FD-5 spectrodensitometer?

Thank you!
 

Puch

Well-known member
First of all, please consider NOT replacing the trusty "old" C1070. If you don't print that much, why would you replace it? Don't fall for the sales guy's push and BS. The KM C10xx line is a very mature family of printers, it will be hard to surpass it's stability, reliability and serviceability. EOL will be around 2024-25, so you will have spare parts, consumables for many years to come.

You haven't stated what kind of documents you produce of the machine. The KM C3080 is only better on structured paper, and only marginally. They changed the toner-developer mixture a bit, which makes laminating a bit more easier, too. If you don't do duplexing, the third general change means nothing to you, which is the ability to set the front-back registration a little more better.

The IQ-501 is a nice addition to a shop where there are a lot of demanding color jobs go 7/24. But if you already have an FD-5, and don't have to rush, the IQ-501 will only add little to your production efficiency.

The C83HC is a fantastic machine for a niche market. The rumour is real, matching ordinary CMYK jobs with past production batches is a nightmare on that. You have to have a very strict in-house color management policy to be successful with that machine in the commercial print arena. I've seen shops praising the HC, but they do a lot of art and photo reproductions, which is what that machine is made for.

The Ricoh 7200 is another beast, it's not in the same league with the small Konica. The real advantage of that machine is the almost straight paper path and the larger drums, rolls, which makes it ideal to print onto high-weight structured materials.
 
Thanks for your reply. I would keep the 1070 but Konica bought out our Xerox contract with that machine and they would only do it with a lease contract. The contract is ending and I'd rather pay towards a machine we own than keep paying a monthly rent for nothing...

You're not saying the 3080 would be a step-back from the 1070? We once had a Xerox 242 with a Creo rip that we regretted trading for the "better" Xerox 700. We could never achieve the quality we had with the 242 with the 700 even though it was a better machine on paper...

We print mostly 170 gsm gloss, nothing very fancy...
 

Puch

Well-known member
The thing with the lamination is that (I believe) you already found the supplier with the right foil, and you found out the best temperature to fuse (on the C1070) and to laminate, too. So this advantage of the C3080 only 'counts' if you need versatility: lamination on a lot of different materials, zero tolerance on bubbles etc.

The C3080 is a newer machine of course, and its EOL will be much later than that of the C1070, but the print quality is the same. Don't expect something fancy. IMHO the C10xx line was a 'too good' group of machines from Konica, like the E46 of BMW. They both regret to put out that kind of quality to the market, since it's very hard to surpass.
 
Hello, just demoed the Versant 180, Konica C83hc and C3080. Thought I'd share my feelings.

The Versant performed fine but failed to impress me. Quality output was just on par with our current 1070. No vacuum feeder. The operator tried to show me the "automatic" (you still have to scan printed sheets) front/back registration on a 320 gsm stock but the machine failed and he had to input corrections manually. We don't use any fancy finishing options so I can't say anything about those.

The Konica C3080 showed a little improvement in quality over the 1070 but nothing extraordinary. Our thick stock did run a lot better with nicer and smoother solid colors, no mottling at all. Front/back registration on the IQ-501 took 3 copies and was spot on on the first try. Automatic calibration with the IQ-501 took a couple minutes.

Also tried the C83hc, I was concerned it'd be able to print a regular CMYK job and it did just fine. Just turned off the "saturation" mode and the prints came out just like on the C3080. Saturation mode is interesting and we were able to print some impressive flashy greens and pinks. Not sure this is something we can sell but I'm sure we can find opportunities to use it and please some customers.

They used the Konica RIP on both machines, which allows full use of the IQ-501.

Seeing some Canon machines tomorrow. Called Ricoh 3 days ago and besides trying to sell me an office machine over the phone, they haven't called back, oops...
 

halmac

Well-known member
First of all, please consider NOT replacing the trusty "old" C1070. If you don't print that much, why would you replace it? Don't fall for the sales guy's push and BS. The KM C10xx line is a very mature family of printers, it will be hard to surpass it's stability, reliability and serviceability. EOL will be around 2024-25, so you will have spare parts, consumables for many years to come.

You haven't stated what kind of documents you produce of the machine. The KM C3080 is only better on structured paper, and only marginally. They changed the toner-developer mixture a bit, which makes laminating a bit more easier, too. If you don't do duplexing, the third general change means nothing to you, which is the ability to set the front-back registration a little more better.

The IQ-501 is a nice addition to a shop where there are a lot of demanding color jobs go 7/24. But if you already have an FD-5, and don't have to rush, the IQ-501 will only add little to your production efficiency.

The C83HC is a fantastic machine for a niche market. The rumour is real, matching ordinary CMYK jobs with past production batches is a nightmare on that. You have to have a very strict in-house color management policy to be successful with that machine in the commercial print arena. I've seen shops praising the HC, but they do a lot of art and photo reproductions, which is what that machine is made for.

The Ricoh 7200 is another beast, it's not in the same league with the small Konica. The real advantage of that machine is the almost straight paper path and the larger drums, rolls, which makes it ideal to print onto high-weight structured materials.
We are installing a Canon 750. Canon wasn't mentioned at all. Any thoughts on the C750?
 

Puch

Well-known member
Does anyone know how the Konica IC-605 RIP compares to the Fiery IC-313?

Thanks!
We've just switched from Fiery to Hikari (as KM call their own solution). After some weeks of use all I can say that I'm impressed! The KM solution can do all the Fiery is able to do, and you don't have to use the sluggish (Java-based) Fiery Workstation software. The KM solution can be accessed from any modern browser, even across a VPN connection when you're on the road.

On the other hand, a KM printer driven by Hikari can only be calibrated (manually) using a standalone application called Color Centro. So it is not buil-in like in Fiery. Color Centro can do a lot more than calibration, though. Eg. it can do iteration to achieve a better color match. I've only ever seen this function on proof RIPs.

Thanks for sharing the result of the demos!
 
We are installing a Canon 750. Canon wasn't mentioned at all. Any thoughts on the C750?
One thing about the Canon 750 is that it is NOT the current model by Canon. Its been replaced by the 710/810/910 model. Hopefully you got a BIG discount on it. My local Canon dealer is offering a 750 for a huge discount compared to the 810.
 

Color Optimized?

Ink
by Noel Ward, Editor@Large
Color is in demand in all types of documents, making color management a critical part of Digital Printing 5.0. Managing color on one device/press can be an easy task with the correct tools and processes. But managing color to ensure printed pages are consistent and repeatable across the different substrates and color gamuts of toner and inkjet can be a much bigger challenge. Properly implemented color management workflows can help achieve consistent color results across multiple devices. Although many end-customers are claiming satisfaction with “pleasing color,” two challenges are still in play. Link to Article

 
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