KM PI-502 won't insert after last printed page

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
We recently installed a PI-502 on our B/W Pro951, to insert colour pages produced on the C4080.
The unit will insert sheets from PI Trays 1 and 2 before the first page, after a printed page if there is another printed page to follow, but not after the last printed page.
We've tried using 'Cover mode' as a workaround, however this delivers similar results, i.e. it will not insert a back cover.
Tried various versions of the 951 and 1052/1250 drivers, both on the network and on the technician's laptop, all with the same results.
No matter what we try, the final page in a job cannot be a post inserted page.
Has anyone encountered this, or similar? @jwheeler possibly?
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
That's odd. My first place to try would be in: "Cover Mode: PI Back Cover Tray" as you seem to indicate. This is a bit of a shot in the dark, but have you tried swapping where the sheets come from? Meaning, if you have the back covers in PI-2, and the color pgs in PI-1, switch them? Alternatively, have you tried pre-colating the covers with the color inserts and inserting all from just one PI tray? Otherwise, I'd suggest putting the back covers (assuming they are on a heavier stock) into the paper drawer to the right of the engine so it feeds straight in (tray 4 if you have the 3-drawer deck, or tray 3 if you have the single high-capacity deck).
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
@jwheeler we don't use covers, I only tried using the 'cover mode' tab as a workaround.
In the example below, page 68 is the last printed page (on default white plain 80GSM) and the final post insertion which should be after page 68 does not happen. All the other inserts (after pages 1,3,11,42,52,56 & 63) happen exactly as they should.
PI-502 issue.PNG

Our dealer has escalated this to the next level up within KM, as first line tech were stumped by it.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
@bill kahny
(see 3rd line down ) Page 66-67 are duplex on tinted paper from tray 2
Note: the 'page settings' tab only has to specify exceptions to the default - all pages on the default of white plain 80GSM (from trays 3&4) aren't shown, page 68 being one of them. Page 68 is simplex in this case.
I have tried by specifying the default white plain 80GSM pages in 'page settings' which makes no difference to the result.
 

namelessentity

Well-known member
Not sure if it'll help, but you're not telling it to print page 68 anywhere in your page settings. Maybe it's not inserting anything because you're not telling it to print?

Also, you could try inserting the last page as the first page. you'd only need to fix one set at the end.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
@namelessentity
The above is perhaps an over complicated example, but it is the .pdcfg file from a real job.
We've tested with a very simple job as below (2 printed pages, 3 post inserted sheets - one before, one in the middle, one after:
PI-502 issue.PNG

Again in this case, it won't insert the final slip sheet after page 2

The workaround you suggested is a good one - thanks - but I do want KM to bottom this out!
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
@namelessentity
The above is perhaps an over complicated example, but it is the .pdcfg file from a real job.
We've tested with a very simple job as below (2 printed pages, 3 post inserted sheets - one before, one in the middle, one after:
View attachment 291128
Again in this case, it won't insert the final slip sheet after page 2

The workaround you suggested is a good one - thanks - but I do want KM to bottom this out!
Don't you have the option of: Insert Blank Sheet after last Page? There is a reason for the first/last selection beyond convenience.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Don't you have the option of: Insert Blank Sheet after last Page? There is a reason for the first/last selection beyond convenience.
No, @gregbatch that is not a PI option.
The two PI options are "Insert Blank Sheet Before First Page" and "Insert Blank Sheet After Page...", the latter which can have multiple occurrences to reflect the variable number of colour sheets to insert at various stages in the document, e.g.
PI-502 issue.PNG

This config would post insert one colour sheet after page 7, two after page 10, eight after page 12 and one after pages 14 and 21.

If using the post inserter just to place a tinted slip sheet between sets, then using "Insert Blank Sheet Before First Page" works fine.
As indeed does inserting pages throughout the document - it is just inserting a sheet after the last (absolute numbered) page that it fails on.
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
@gregbatch and @Ynot_UK , this is actualy gave me an idea that could at least be a temporary work around for you. If you go to the machine panel and press Utility>User Setting>Common Settings>then 'Next' a few pages until you get to the "Offset Output Mode". In this section, you can choose to insert a page between sets from any paper source (Including the PI trays) by using the "Partition Paper" option. Depending on how your job is output, it sometimes places it at the beginning of the set, rather than at the end, but that essentially becomes the last page as soon as the next one comes out. We use this feature for making pads. We tell the machine to offset every 50 or 100 copies, and instead of offsetting, it inserts a cardstock for the pad backer. For your job, just make sure to check the "Offset Output Copies" option and keep the number at "1". BTW, if you still want the job to offset, you can select "Change Out Position + Partition Paper" option at the machine panel.
Offset.jpg
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
No, @gregbatch that is not a PI option.
The two PI options are "Insert Blank Sheet Before First Page" and "Insert Blank Sheet After Page...", the latter which can have multiple occurrences to reflect the variable number of colour sheets to insert at various stages in the document, e.g.
View attachment 291130
This config would post insert one colour sheet after page 7, two after page 10, eight after page 12 and one after pages 14 and 21.

If using the post inserter just to place a tinted slip sheet between sets, then using "Insert Blank Sheet Before First Page" works fine.
As indeed does inserting pages throughout the document - it is just inserting a sheet after the last (absolute numbered) page that it fails on.
Then I too am baffled. I know that on the Fiery specifying the last insert as a page number can be unpredictable, and I have often had trouble with getting that last insert. But the Fiery has that "after last page" option that seems to work without issue. Is the default document page simplex or duplex?
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
@gregbatch and @Ynot_UK , this is actualy gave me an idea that could at least be a temporary work around for you. If you go to the machine panel and press Utility>User Setting>Common Settings>then 'Next' a few pages until you get to the "Offset Output Mode". In this section, you can choose to insert a page between sets from any paper source (Including the PI trays) by using the "Partition Paper" option. Depending on how your job is output, it sometimes places it at the beginning of the set, rather than at the end, but that essentially becomes the last page as soon as the next one comes out. We use this feature for making pads. We tell the machine to offset every 50 or 100 copies, and instead of offsetting, it inserts a cardstock for the pad backer. For your job, just make sure to check the "Offset Output Copies" option and keep the number at "1". BTW, if you still want the job to offset, you can select "Change Out Position + Partition Paper" option at the machine panel.
View attachment 291131
@jwheeler Those two offset options aren't included on the 951/1052/1250 driver. They are on the 1100 driver, which we tried as a workaround several months ago prior to buying a PI-502 (when we were thinking of PI-ing from the PF-706)

951 driver:
PI-502 issue-951.PNG
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Then I too am baffled. I know that on the Fiery specifying the last insert as a page number can be unpredictable, and I have often had trouble with getting that last insert. But the Fiery has that "after last page" option that seems to work without issue. Is the default document page simplex or duplex?
On the job proper, page 68 (the final page) is simplex, then there would be two sheets to PI
On the test jobs, we have tried various combinations of simplex and duplex.
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
Those two offset options aren't included on the 951/1052/1250 driver.
Is the partition paper option available at the machine panel? If so, it may still work. Sorry, it's been a long time since I've had access to a 951 to remember the differences.
 

gregbatch

Well-known member
One more thought. On my 1060 it won't even let you select PI trays if the output tray is auto. I have seen many quirks in printer drivers that have baffled the best techs. Have you tried specifying the output tray rather than using default?
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
One more thought. On my 1060 it won't even let you select PI trays if the output tray is auto. I have seen many quirks in printer drivers that have baffled the best techs. Have you tried specifying the output tray rather than using default?
@gregbatch - thanks for the suggestion, however I have just tried it and it makes no difference...
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Just to update on this, it was resolved by a firmware upgrade and then using @jwheeler 's suggestion in #2 above, i.e. where the last sheet of a set is a post-inserted sheet, to set it as a PI'd back cover in the 'Covers' tab. Thanks to all for your input.
 

What About Profitability?

Canon 2022
The Video You Really
Need To Watch

Modern offset press performance comes with several nuances.
Chris Travis, Director of Technology at Koenig & Bauer, shares some details.
View The Video

   
Top