Post Inserting (KM Pro951)

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
We don't have the PI-502 Post Inserter on our Pro951, however the driver facilitates inserting blank sheet/s after specified pages, from a paper tray (pre-engine). I have used this occasionally for inserting tinted slip sheets between sets. IIRC it doesn't count as a click.

Any thoughts on using this as a PI to insert colour digital sheets (produced on the C4080) into a B/W job?
My obvious concern is the colour sheets going through a hot fuser.
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
We do this with prints from our C6085 going through out 6136 without any problem. We use tray 4 for best feeding results as that is the straightest path.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Many thanks @jwheeler
In your configuration, am I right in thinking the fusing temperature would be similar, both the C6085 and B/W 6136 using Simitri toner.
Whereas on our older Pro951, the fusing temperature is likely to be higher than that the colour prints from the C4080 being PI'd were fused at - or do you think this is a non-issue?
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
I don't think it will be an issue, but just give it a shot! You won't know for sure unless you test it. At worst, you'll lose a few prints.
 
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Ynot_UK

Well-known member
@jwheeler, not sure if you can help with this and what I'm doing wrong?
  • In the Pro951 driver Page Settings tab, when selecting "insert blank sheet after page" and then setting the page number, a conflict is detected if the paper tray is set to anything other than PI Tray 1 or PI Tray 2
  • In other words, it is not allowing any of the paper trays to be used as a PI Tray
  • For example, on the first line, I set Print (2sided) Page numbers 1-2 from Tray 1, Tinted Card.
    • Then on the second line I set Insert Blank Page after Page 2 from Tray 4, Number of Sheets: 1
    • At this stage, page 2 is removed from line 1 as the driver is disallowing the page number "2" to exist twice (detecting a conflict - which would be correct if we were trying to print page 2 from two different trays, but incorrect when trying to insert a blank sheet after page 2
Any thoughts?
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
@Ynot_UK , unfortunately I don't have a 951 to test, but I just tried that on my 6136 which has the same type of KM print driver and it allowed it. Might be a glitch with that older driver. A quick fix would be to add a blank page in your document after page 2, and assign that to come from tray 4.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
Thanks as always @jwheeler. It is a thing with the older driver, as it works on the 1100 driver which I installed an hour ago to test... although sadly the 1100 driver won't talk to the 951 (even a test page just hangs in 'data receiving' mode). I'll do a work around this time, this was a regular B/W job which has just gained scatterings of colour pages, so I've put feelers out for a PI-502 for the future. Thanks again.
 

MrSchmidt

Member
We do this with prints from our C6085 going through out 6136 without any problem. We use tray 4 for best feeding results as that is the straightest path.
Hello
I have a KM C6085 with IC 604 KM controler and I am printing a lot of material (books) in collated sets. But for the purpose of easy finding start of each set (when cutting the material) I would of course need to insert a different kind of paper sheet (colored, or a slight weight difference,. I cannot find this option on my IC controler since it always wants to correct finishing to SORT (and NOT COLLATE) output material which is not an option since its going to be post processed on other machines.
Is there something I am missing or is this very handy option being overlooked?
Thanks in advance, J
 

bcr

Well-known member
i can't speak to doing this on a KM Pro951.

only that i have a dual post-inserter on a Ricoh C5310. It's actually a big disappointment because the paper take such a sharp bend into the machine that they are prone to jams.
and being a post-inserter i can't fine tune the settings on inserted sheets like i can with paper which is being printed on in order to try to avoid some of those jams. it seems a real oversight to me.

so for a problematic batch of printed and trimmed covers recently i ended up sending them back through via the bypass tray instead of the post-inserter. it worked much better and i didn't notice any quality issues.

I also used to use a post-inserter on a KM c754e to feed pre-printed tabs in. that worked well.
 

MrSchmidt

Member
Thanks for your replay. I sadly do not have a post inserter (in hope it would not give me such troubles you have). I tried this with simply inserting sheet from another tray but with no luck. In my mind that should be a MUST solution on a production machine since probably majority of prints end up being processed for variety of products. I would not even care if they charged me for a blank page but this not being an option is a big mistake. Other than that, I cant complain over KM C6085 with IQ 501 and KM controller IC 604. Very few flaws I know about and the machine is working like a clock. And the tech guys seem to love it because of its easy to service/replace parts.
I did work with Ricoh C 7100 and Xerox Versant V80, V180, V3100.
Cheers, J
I guess I Will still be looking for a solution...
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
@MrSchmidt , you don't need a post insert tray to accomplish what you're talking about. There are several options:
  1. You can use the Front Cover or Back Cover option in the print settings and assign the paper to come from any tray. Leave the "Print" box unchecked:
    1667939023910.png
  2. The method we mostly use for slip sheets is the following:
    1. Press the Utility button on the machine panel
    2. Press "Common Settings"
    3. Press "Next" 2 or 3 times until you get to the screen that displays the "Offset Output Mode" option
    4. Here you can select "Change Position & Insert Partition Paper" or just "Insert Partition Paper". The change position means it will offset the sets.
    5. You can specify the partition paper to come from any tray, not just PI trays.
    6. Be aware this is a machine-wide setting that will effect all jobs that have the "Offset" option selected in the print options within the "Finishing" section. You'll need to turn it off by repeating the above steps.
      1667940561294.png
 

MrSchmidt

Member
Thank you for your answer but it seems I dont have so much boxes to check in my command print driver. (KM C6085, IC 604)
as you can see in my attachment, I cant insert a cover because it automatically changes my finishing output mode to SORT...
To do this in machine settings is somehow inconvenient. As I understand it will always take a partition paper (when offset output copies is checked) out of lets say tray 2 and thus having only 3 trays to begin with .... I will have to do this too many times. But I will try it since it seems it is the only way.
 

bcr

Well-known member
Thank you for your answer but it seems I dont have so much boxes to check in my command print driver. (KM C6085, IC 604)
as you can see in my attachment, I cant insert a cover because it automatically changes my finishing output mode to SORT...
To do this in machine settings is somehow inconvenient. As I understand it will always take a partition paper (when offset output copies is checked) out of lets say tray 2 and thus having only 3 trays to begin with .... I will have to do this too many times. But I will try it since it seems it is the only way.
So you want the pages to come out uncollated in groups like:

Cover, 111, cover, 222, cover, 333?

You could use a batch printing application like Batch Print Pro from Traction Software to print more sophisticated cover sheets.

You could probably print each page as a separate document and then insert a cover page at group level (e.g. pages 111 would be a group).

i used it this past week to print thousands of documents with dynamic cover sheets on pink paper with the filename printed onto them. Admittedly I did this for each document printed collated, but there's probably a way to do it and if you email their technical support Lee is a very responsive wizard who can usually find you a solution the same day of asking.
 

jwheeler

Well-known member
Thank you for your answer but it seems I dont have so much boxes to check in my command print driver. (KM C6085, IC 604)
as you can see in my attachment, I cant insert a cover because it automatically changes my finishing output mode to SORT...
To do this in machine settings is somehow inconvenient. As I understand it will always take a partition paper (when offset output copies is checked) out of lets say tray 2 and thus having only 3 trays to begin with .... I will have to do this too many times. But I will try it since it seems it is the only way.
I must not be understanding what you're trying to achieve. Can you please describe the project a bit more in detail and what your desired outcome is? For example, do you want it to print 100 copies of page 1, then slip sheet, 100 copies of page 2, then slip sheet? Or Page 1-20 collated, then slip sheet, another set of 1-20, then slip sheet, and so on? Either one can be done, you just need to set it up correctly. Another way is to add a blank sheet to the beginning or end of your print file and specify in page settings to have that come from another tray.

And I understand which print controller you have. I have the same KM controller on a C6085 as well. Also, if you only have 3 paper trays, and no bypass or post insert trays, then of course you'll have to use one of those 3 trays for the slip sheet paper. I'm confused as to where else you're wanting the paper to come from...?

If this is a project you do often, I would highly recommend adding the PI-502 post inserter trays to the top of your FS-532. It's relatively low cost and doesn't add any length to the machine. The only other options are adding the FD-503, another 3-drawer paper deck, or bypass tray - all of which add length and cost quite a bit of $$.
1668025660118.png
 

MrSchmidt

Member
Like you said. One job (one file) with multiple pages printed in groups. 1111111, slip sheet, 2222222, slip sheet, etc. Nothing special about what I want. And I had a technician just yesterday and he said it can not be done with my configuration. So there we are. One minus (from me) for not having this option which in my mind should be a simple click.
Its probably just because they want you to buy a post inserter. ..... But post inserter does not have a vacuum feeder does it :) and sooner or later it will give you troubles because of the type of the paper and so on and so on..... :)
Thank you anyways.
 

bcr

Well-known member
Like you said. One job (one file) with multiple pages printed in groups. 1111111, slip sheet, 2222222, slip sheet, etc. Nothing special about what I want. And I had a technician just yesterday and he said it can not be done with my configuration. So there we are. One minus (from me) for not having this option which in my mind should be a simple click.
Its probably just because they want you to buy a post inserter. ..... But post inserter does not have a vacuum feeder does it :) and sooner or later it will give you troubles because of the type of the paper and so on and so on..... :)
Thank you anyways.
i don't know whether they are right or wrong that it can't be done using the driver alone and your hardware config.

but you can definitely come up with a workflow to do this if you use an application like Batch & Print Pro.

you can download a free trial of it and e-mail their technical support outlining what you want to do. they will typically reply same day with a solution.

workflow then if i understand it would be:

Print Document X with multiple copies of pages uncollated into groups per page

Before each group of pages, insert a slipsheet or divider, either different media weight or colour.


I've not tested the uncollated part with slipsheets on Batch & Print Pro but i'd be surprised if there is not a way to make it happen.
I've used their dynamic separator sheets and they are awesome.

you might even be able to do it with print conductor.
 

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