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Kodak Sonora XP - your thoughts?

wonderings

Well-known member
We are currently using Anthem Pro plates from Presstek on our Dimension Excel. We are looking at switching away from them to get away from water cleaning after and simply because the filters Presstek charges and arm and a leg for.

So I have been searching the site about these plates and read a few things. The first thing is the light sensitivity. Are these plates fine after imaged and used on press? We store a lot of plates after the job for repeat orders. Would they still be sensitive after use?

Any complaints about these plates? It always sounds great on paper, but real world use can tell a very different story.
 
We have been using them for a few months and are happy with them. The pressmen have said they scratch easier than the sword excel plates.
It's also very hard to see the image on the plates so QC is harder in prepress. They do print very well though.
We don't reuse plates so I can't answer how well they store.
 
We've been using them for almost a year. Pressmen like them. We don't re-use them, either, so no clue if they can be stored. They are pretty sensitive to light before running - maybe an hour or less before they become unusable. We make plates a day ahead and make sure they are packed up so the emulsion side is in.
 
Chem free plates

Chem free plates

We've been using them for almost a year. Pressmen like them. We don't re-use them, either, so no clue if they can be stored. They are pretty sensitive to light before running - maybe an hour or less before they become unusable. We make plates a day ahead and make sure they are packed up so the emulsion side is in.

Maybe because Agfa Azura plates require a wash unit?
....but a processor is a processor.....it's a big hassle, chemical isn't that cheap etc. etc. etc.
 
Sonora XP on Presstek

Sonora XP on Presstek

We are currently using Anthem Pro plates from Presstek on our Dimension Excel. We are looking at switching away from them to get away from water cleaning after and simply because the filters Presstek charges and arm and a leg for.

So I have been searching the site about these plates and read a few things. The first thing is the light sensitivity. Are these plates fine after imaged and used on press? We store a lot of plates after the job for repeat orders. Would they still be sensitive after use?

Any complaints about these plates? It always sounds great on paper, but real world use can tell a very different story.

We are currently testing the Sonora on Presstek Dimension, They image well, though if you use current settings the plate will be greatly overexposed. After switching from positive to negative, level the laser array, then take the imaging power (most likely set between 1400 and 1600, and reduce those by 50%. That should get you in the ball park. As for the Sonora Plate in general, it has been a great improvement over Thermal Direct and Eco Max, having a strong latten image, and faster roll up. The biggest improvement over the Anthem is that this plate is truly grained, which means a much wider water window. You will run much less water, and it is compatible with all conventional inks and fountain solutions. The plates can be cleaned, gummed and stored like a conventional plate. They are no longer light sensitive after being rolled up on press.
 
I just started the process of switching over to the Sonora's on my Dimension. I started out with using settings I had from AzuraTS plates I use to run, they rolled up on the press just fine. Now I need to build a new profile on my rip to fine tune them. I'll keep you posted.

Have you tried using Presstek's Aurora plate ? I've been using them for 3 or 4 years with great luck, you would cut down on your filter changing well over half what the Anthems are. I can't remember the last time I opened the top up to clean the cylinder and the lasers and I lowered the power to the lasers by 40% at least.

My processor is on it's last leg (actually it's last toe) is one reason I'm switching, other reasons are shipping price increases from Presstek etc. etc.!

To the others that replied to this thread, are you using the Sonora's on a Dimension machine ?
 
Maybe because Agfa Azura plates require a wash unit?
....but a processor is a processor.....it's a big hassle, chemical isn't that cheap etc. etc. etc.

apparently you don't know what the TE plate is...... IT is the Agfa Proceless Plate.That doesn't use a processor.... Do you need some info on them
 
I hear mostly great reviews from our customer who switched to Kodak Sonora plates, but... my engineers tell me that this plate requires quite a lot of energy in the process of being exposed, hence the life of the laser in your CtP device maybe significantly shorter, while using Sonora.
 
Not so. Sonora is NEGATIVE working plate which means that laser writes the image area. Same as AGFA Azura or Fuji Brilia Pro-T(any version). In my experience, most plates have less than half of total surface covered in image (to remind: positive plates have to remove all non mage areas).

Energy required (and therefore imaging speed) is in range with most chemical plates. Azura TU and TS need processing (without expensive developer - processing is done in long lasting gum arabic) after exposure which allows a long time between exposure and printing. Processless plates (which "develop" on press) typicaly have 24 hour image latency (time that plate producer can guarantee a plate will work according to spec) in dark dry place. If you plan to make the plates long before printing (like CtP as a service and courier overnight transport in my case), chem free plates are way to go. Completely processless plates are for people that have CtP in house or short time from plate imaging to printing machine. There is a lot of others factors to be counted in, also.

In short, negative working plates use less laser time then positive plates and non-image areas rarely make problems since they are not bonded to substrate.
 
Not so. Sonora is NEGATIVE working plate which means that laser writes the image area. Same as AGFA Azura or Fuji Brilia Pro-T(any version). In my experience, most plates have less than half of total surface covered in image (to remind: positive plates have to remove all non mage areas).

Energy required (and therefore imaging speed) is in range with most chemical plates. Azura TU and TS need processing (without expensive developer - processing is done in long lasting gum arabic) after exposure which allows a long time between exposure and printing. Processless plates (which "develop" on press) typicaly have 24 hour image latency (time that plate producer can guarantee a plate will work according to spec) in dark dry place. If you plan to make the plates long before printing (like CtP as a service and courier overnight transport in my case), chem free plates are way to go. Completely processless plates are for people that have CtP in house or short time from plate imaging to printing machine. There is a lot of others factors to be counted in, also.

In short, negative working plates use less laser time then positive plates and non-image areas rarely make problems since they are not bonded to substrate.

Well, the actual issue of the laser life is much more complex that a simple negative vs. positive explanation.

1. In CtP systems that use laser head (Kodak Magnus, Trendsetter, Screen or Agfa w. GLV heads) the laser is turned on at all time during the imaging process. It does not matter if the plate is positive or negative, as the “on/off” effect is generated by opening or shutting a light valve, while the actual laser is turned on. In this type of CtP it is NOT TRUE that the negative working plates use less laser time then positive plates.
In CtP systems that use individual laser diodes (i.e. Kodak Lotem, some Screen and Agfa models) the laser diodes are indeed turned off while an area on a plate is not being imaged. In this type of CtP it IS TRUE that the negative working plates use less laser time then positive plates.


2. The second, more important, aspect of the laser life is what is the main reason behind the wear process. Contrary to the common belief, the time that the laser is in ON position is not the main wear factor. Much more important is a current drawn by the laser. In short: low current drawn for a longer time to image a regular process plate is not as damaging as a high current drawn for a shorter time to image a chemistry-free plate. In general any chemistry-free plate requires to draw a relatively high current to attach the emulsion to the base of the plate. On the other hand, the current drawn when imaging a traditional thermal plates in much lower.
This explains why sometimes users of Sonora, Thermal Direct, Azura, Eco-Max, Brilia Pro-T have to replace their lasers much quicker that users of traditional thermal plates.

In the end let me say that I really believe that the chemistry free plates are the way to go for many printers. At the same time it is good to know how does the CtP imaging process really work.
 
That is also the reason why plate makers try to make processless plates with lower and lower energy requirements. I'll take Azura as an example. First generation Azura was in 300mJ/cm2 range, TS went down to 200mJ/cm2, TU is in 160mJ/cm2 range and all had to wash in Azura gumming/washing solution. Azura TE in on-press-developing and in 160mJ/cm2 range. 160mJ/cm2 range brings processless plates in range with medium quality chemicaly developed thermal plates. Only you have to take in total cost buying AND disposing of chemistry (no chemistry is allowed to go down the drain). The calculation can be rather harsh when you take processing into account and include man-hours on plate developer maintenace. It's rather interesting and complex subject and I would like to see as many print shops expectancies of real total cost for processless and regular system (including expected laser life and costs mentioned before in CtP service life).
 

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