Kodak XD plates
- Thread starter maas
- Start date
couriergraphics
Well-known member
can you clarify "tramlines"
Afternoon
these lines show on all our 5 web offset presses
All marks are perpendicular to the the grip edge. They travel in straight lines from the Grip to the Tail of the plate.
The mark is occurring on different batches of plates and on different presses.
Typically the mark appears after a run of 40000 impressions
There is no evidence of gauging and all rollers in contact with the cylinder under impression are clean and without buildup.
We have eliminated the plate setters and processors as potential causes and are focussing on ink and plates as they are common on all our presses.
These look like contact marks as they do not apear on the plate bends
regards
Maas
these lines show on all our 5 web offset presses
All marks are perpendicular to the the grip edge. They travel in straight lines from the Grip to the Tail of the plate.
The mark is occurring on different batches of plates and on different presses.
Typically the mark appears after a run of 40000 impressions
There is no evidence of gauging and all rollers in contact with the cylinder under impression are clean and without buildup.
We have eliminated the plate setters and processors as potential causes and are focussing on ink and plates as they are common on all our presses.
These look like contact marks as they do not apear on the plate bends
regards
Maas
Attachments
gordo
Well-known member
Do the marks appear on all plates? I ask because it's a bit odd that the mark in your image is inline with the screen angle. Is this the Yellow (or Black) plate? Is it in line with the other screen angles or is the mark constant in angle compared with the gripper angle.
Also, it's not just the line up the center that appears abraded but also two halftone dots to the left the halftone dots also appear to have the same abrasion - based on how the dots are malformed.
thx, gordon p
Also, it's not just the line up the center that appears abraded but also two halftone dots to the left the halftone dots also appear to have the same abrasion - based on how the dots are malformed.
thx, gordon p
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Alois Senefelder
Well-known member
re Tramlines
re Tramlines
Hello Maas,
Do the said "Tramlines" also run through the Non-image area of the plates, running from the Lead Edge to Trailing Edge ? -- then look for faint marks in the Anodizing.
Regards, Alois
re Tramlines
Hello Maas,
Do the said "Tramlines" also run through the Non-image area of the plates, running from the Lead Edge to Trailing Edge ? -- then look for faint marks in the Anodizing.
Regards, Alois
Last edited:
Afternoon
Thank you both for your feedback.
To answer your question first Alois, yes the lines do apear in the non image area of the plate, and secondly Gordo the lines do apear in all plates CMYK and at 90 degree to the edge.
My next step is to isolate the plates by using a batch with the number 5000 out from the previous batch number to ensure about 3 months seperation in production.
WE have a tank system for our ink for all presses except 1, for this press i will retain the old batch of plates and trail ink from a different vendor and also get the milling analysed to ensure a "gloss mill" as per the manufacturers specifications.
As an aside i will also look at the time diferential between when the plate was made and when it went on the press, we do not gum our plates as such but have a prebake solution that includes Arabic gum, this protects the image from the heat in the oven, in the old days i have seen "gum blindness" on litho plates where the gum crystalises after 1-2 days and acts as an abrasive on the plate prior to being taken off by press chemestry.
regards
Maas
Thank you both for your feedback.
To answer your question first Alois, yes the lines do apear in the non image area of the plate, and secondly Gordo the lines do apear in all plates CMYK and at 90 degree to the edge.
My next step is to isolate the plates by using a batch with the number 5000 out from the previous batch number to ensure about 3 months seperation in production.
WE have a tank system for our ink for all presses except 1, for this press i will retain the old batch of plates and trail ink from a different vendor and also get the milling analysed to ensure a "gloss mill" as per the manufacturers specifications.
As an aside i will also look at the time diferential between when the plate was made and when it went on the press, we do not gum our plates as such but have a prebake solution that includes Arabic gum, this protects the image from the heat in the oven, in the old days i have seen "gum blindness" on litho plates where the gum crystalises after 1-2 days and acts as an abrasive on the plate prior to being taken off by press chemestry.
regards
Maas
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gordo
Well-known member
If the line appears on all press units then it's likely not a press problem. If the lines only appear on one press unit then it may be a press issue. Can you rotate the plate 90° and image? If the line still appears in the same direction then it is not the plate but likely a processor issue. But if the line changes its orientation 90° then it's likely a problem with the plates.
best, gordon
Alois Senefelder
Well-known member
Tramlines
Tramlines
Hello Maas,
Do the "Tramlines" appear in identical positions on the plates irrespective of which press they were run on ?
Regards, Alois
Tramlines
Hello Maas,
Do the "Tramlines" appear in identical positions on the plates irrespective of which press they were run on ?
Regards, Alois
Morning Gents
To answer you question first Gordo, we have imaged the plate vertically as opposed to horizontally, no visible marks post processing under a 200x lupe, after 48.000 copies lines appear.
And to answer your question Alois, the lines are uniform in width but appear at random intervals on the plate and there is no corresponding piling/build up on the blanket or debris in the forme rollers etc.
We have send a sample via Kodak NZ (i must mention their service has been outstanding) to their plant in China.
As an aside changing to an new batch this morning for one of our presses has produced no "tramlines" so far, the press is up to 430.000 good copies.....
regards
Maas
To answer you question first Gordo, we have imaged the plate vertically as opposed to horizontally, no visible marks post processing under a 200x lupe, after 48.000 copies lines appear.
And to answer your question Alois, the lines are uniform in width but appear at random intervals on the plate and there is no corresponding piling/build up on the blanket or debris in the forme rollers etc.
We have send a sample via Kodak NZ (i must mention their service has been outstanding) to their plant in China.
As an aside changing to an new batch this morning for one of our presses has produced no "tramlines" so far, the press is up to 430.000 good copies.....
regards
Maas
SérgioMateus
New member
Hello!
I'm having problems with the XD Thermal plates. some of the plates apears a little bit 'foggy' at the end of the plates (not in the leading or trailing edge, on the sides).
The kodak send an engeneer to solve the problem but the only thing that he told was that i was runing with the wrong processor parameters.
it was 1300milimiters/min and 23,5celsius degrees, he told me to run 1500milimiters/min and 21celsuis degreees.
this week i notice that the chemistry is getting weaker easily...i ask him about the replenish values and he told me to keep the same....150ml/square meter.
i realy think that the problem are in the plates and i should never acept the NEW processor parameters.
can the XD plate users tell me the parameters that you run on the processor...speed & temp...?
thank you all
I'm having problems with the XD Thermal plates. some of the plates apears a little bit 'foggy' at the end of the plates (not in the leading or trailing edge, on the sides).
The kodak send an engeneer to solve the problem but the only thing that he told was that i was runing with the wrong processor parameters.
it was 1300milimiters/min and 23,5celsius degrees, he told me to run 1500milimiters/min and 21celsuis degreees.
this week i notice that the chemistry is getting weaker easily...i ask him about the replenish values and he told me to keep the same....150ml/square meter.
i realy think that the problem are in the plates and i should never acept the NEW processor parameters.
can the XD plate users tell me the parameters that you run on the processor...speed & temp...?
thank you all
SérgioMateus
New member
Trendsetter 800II Quantum & Polychrome Mercury Mk5 1550
Kodak XD - Plates
300 Thermal Developer
thans
Kodak XD - Plates
300 Thermal Developer
thans
Armya Inc
Well-known member
Hi,
Can we go back to pre-press room? What kind of plate setter are you using? What is your processor? How do you load the plates? Have you ever tried to image the plates (at least 4colors for high run lengths) with another Plate setter and then print them using your press machines?
No problem?
Next image the plates with another plate setter and use your own processor.
No problem?
Image with your plate setter and use another processor.
No problem?
Well then your problem is Rip or Work flow. You do not need me to continue with the Rip system. If all your systems are ok. The Problem is your plates.
Summery: Get 4 Plates of same brand from somebody else, Image and Print them with your Press Machine for High run lengths. This will tell you if your plates are ok or not.
Hope this will help.
Farshad
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KevinC@EFI
Well-known member
Standard SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is as follows, but keep in mind that some adjustments are normal based on your individual circumstances - high/low volume use, ambient temperature, CTP device, processor type and condition, etc. Your plate support person probably has reasons to deviate in your case, but it's always good to check.
Processing speed: 1300-1500mm/min (21-25 sec. dwell time)
Temperature: 23C
Replenishment: 90-110ml/m2
Anti-Ox: 4 liters/24h (because you have a huge processor - it's less for smaller ones)
Kevin.
Armya Inc
Well-known member
Hi kevin,
Thank you for the Processor Setting. You are always there when we all need you.
Can you please send be the product specification as well? Should I have to check Kodak's web site?
Thanks in Advance.
All the best
Farshad
[email protected]
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