Komori 10 color

[canadian printer]

Our company has bought a new 10/c komori . Just wondering if nay of you have been to Chicago for the training and what it's like. Also how you like running a Komori. Have only run a Heidelberg . Cheers

 

[oldprinter]

Hello, We got our new Komori 4 years ago. 6/C 40 w/coater. We all went to Chicago for training. It's not the dog and pony show like Heidelberg, It's actual traing. Very nice people and crews there. They know their stuff, and are very free with advice and help. Excellent times we had.
If you've been running a Heidy for as long as I did, 25 years, your in for a great suprise my friend. These jewels almost run themselves. I am virtually shockproof, but still today EVERY job I put on I still laugh. Dead nuts in register, and bright and brilliant color. Did I mention *NO* marking or hickeys????? It added 10 years to my life I swear to God. Your in for a real treat.
I remember being a Heidy bigot for all those years downtalking the Jap presses, but boy was I wrong. Have a great time in Chicago, and a greater time when you get your Komori.

mch

 

[canadian printer]

Thanks

Thanks

Awesome thanks for the reply! It has worried our crew about the learning curve from Heidi to Komori. I'm pumped to run a 10/c 5 over 5 no more flipping stock. My feeder will get fat and lazy! Cheers.Do you get time in the eve to catch a ball game? From Canada so hope to catch some sites in Chicago

 

[oldprinter]

That was my biggest worry. When we were told we were getting a Komori, I thought, oh sh#@%. We were an all Heidy shop for 25 years, and at 47 years old I was in no hurry to relearn anything. Again, boy was I wrong.The feeders are a little tricky at first but trust me you'll get the hang of it.The biggest change was the speed. I spent my life running around 8500 per hour. Haha, these babies look like their on crawl at 10000 per hour. i swear you'll find yourself running at 12. I never ran at 12 in my life. 12 has the look and feel of 8 on a Heidy. They started talking to our Pres. about 15000 per hour and I almost thought about retiring. Well we've run many a job at 14, but 11500 is my new "standard" Actually I'm running right now at 12 and that was my biggest fear. I wouldnt run at 12 on a bet on a heidy.
Yes, catch a cubbies game! They were out of town when we were there

 

[oldprinter]

After reading my post, I wanted to add a few things. I am in no way bashing Heidelbergs. I spent my life, from age 23 to age 47 running them. I made a great career with them. And is many ways, I'm comparing apples to oranges. The last Heidy I ran before I went Komori was a 1996 model. am sure the new ones are quite awesome. Since I'm the senior guy on nite shift, I always moved to the new press as we got them. They were always improved avery generation. Any Komori guys please jump in here with your experiences going from heid to Komori. I'd love to hear other comments/questions.

 

[canadian printer]

great imput

great imput

Thanks this is great info. Iagree Heidi makes a great press I run a 6/c CD with coater and all the bells and whistles. It's good to know that other guys who have ran a press for years have experienced the change. I'm looking forward to the change and challenge. How long was the learning curve for you? I'm no rookie and sad to say no spring chicken anymore but how long did it take you to feel real comfortable running it. Also curious to know after the week training in Chicago when they come onsite for the install how long was the shop training? Do you run live jobs soon after press is all installed? Again your THANKS for your imput it is of great interest. I have shared it with the fellow pressman in the shop.

 

[REYES1377]

I am in the same boat as all of you. All said about Komori is true. But My company has had quite of bit of sruggles the last 10 m0nths it has been up and running. I have alot of long runs, 300,000 +. We have had troubble with plate sensitivity. plates only lasting 40,000 impressions. Also ink build up on the chrome and meetering rollers. major picture framing. We have gone through several inks and chemistries to finaly get a handel on it. I have a 2000 CD 102 right next to it that you can put any ink and etch into it and it will run. I am almost convinced that Komori dose not excell in long runs. On a 40" sheet always a struggle to keep the ends free from dry up. It is not like the Heidy, set it and forget it.

Have any of you experinced this yet?

 

[madjock]

Dead nuts in register, and bright and brilliant color. Did I mention *NO* marking or hickeys?????

Sounds just like a Heidelberg 105 XL Cd, only slower!

 

[oldprinter]

>>Sounds just like a Heidelberg 105 XL Cd, only slower! <<

Hey, I agree. Sadly we never bought a CD . Nor extended delivery. Running 90 percent coverage and coating on 60# cis label stock wears a little thin after a while. It was complete oversight and cheapness on our companies part. If the Komori hadn't come standard with these, I probably would never even posted in this group.

REYES1377 - We had some common problems similar to the ones you are having. I'll have some time later today to discuss with you.

 

[CD102]

Are these machines using some kind of epic or delta dampening system? Or were the sheet cleaners that good? Because hickies were always par for the course in my old shop.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

We have a 2008 Komori 40' and it has Delta Dampening, you never see a hickey just loads of background scumming/tinting and excessive build up on the metering rollers

 

[oldprinter]

The Komori water form runs slightly slower than the press creating a mild "scrubbing" action. I haven't had more than 10 hickeys in 4 years.

<Buildup of ink on the water system>
We had a major problem with this after startup. It came down to a few things for us. Are you running Chinese made paper as we are? Yup this stuff is LOADED with calcium which atributes to this problem. Do your normal de=calcification procedure if you have one. Your chem supplier can get you all the needed materials. The guys in Chicago told us between Pink or green fountain solution, Komori's seem to like pink. This was not true for us. We're in the Southeast U.S. and our water is very soft. Yours may differ, try both. I'll post the fount solution we are using when i get back to work on Sun. When we used PMS inks we mixed in the shop we found cutting the dryer in the ink the problem disappeared. It might take some ink supplier and chem supplier help, but you will find a solution.

<Picture framing>
Again, seems to be a problem for some Komori's. ++My opinion++ it's generally caused by too heavy settings between the forms and the vibrators. Check this first.

<dryup on the ends and toning on long runs>
Obviously make sure your forms are not vibrating. Try skewing the chrome. We stay skewed on all units to about number 10 on the scale. We also increased our conductivity from 1500 to 1900. Again your water may be different from ours (city water)

 

[REYES1377]

Thanks for your info. Skewing has helped. When the ink forms are in the locked position they still oscilate 2 to 3 mill. In my opinion if they are locked there should be no movement. I feel this is adding to the problem. Komori isn't quite concerned that it is. We use RO water, should we go to city?

Runs that are 30,000 and under this press works wounders. I just feel anything longer it shows it's true performance.

 

[oldprinter]

I don't know why Komori isn't concerned about that. What you are seeing is called "endplay" and when I've talked to other pressman, they've stressed that Komori presses do not like it. There's a procedure our startup tech showed us when we installed the forms. It's not hard and should be in your manual.
Do you mean reverse osmosis water? I'm not sure about that. Do you do this inplant? City water might help, I guess it depends on your water. What area are you in?

 

[RKS]

We have a 2.5 yr old Komori 10 color perfector and we love it. We had 6 Heidelbergs and traded them in on the LS10 & a LS6 and have more capacity than before. The pressmen love them. The training they provide is excellent, plus the trainers they send out to your location on startup are excellent.

 

[tomatron]

I am in the same boat as all of you. All said about Komori is true. But My company has had quite of bit of sruggles the last 10 m0nths it has been up and running. I have alot of long runs, 300,000 +. We have had troubble with plate sensitivity. plates only lasting 40,000 impressions. Also ink build up on the chrome and meetering rollers. major picture framing. We have gone through several inks and chemistries to finaly get a handel on it. I have a 2000 CD 102 right next to it that you can put any ink and etch into it and it will run. I am almost convinced that Komori dose not excell in long runs. On a 40" sheet always a struggle to keep the ends free from dry up. It is not like the Heidy, set it and forget it.

Have any of you experinced this yet?

If you turn off the delta dampening the picture framing and plate ware will disappear. If that doesn't do it then you must not have the same plate to blanket pressure as the Heidi.

 

[john beniston]

It might surprise everyone to find out that Komori were building Offset presses back in 1929. A long time before HD thought about it
They (Heidelberg Druck') did not start building offset machines until the 1960's.
So. I would say Komori know a thing or two about it.

 

[QualityPrint]

How is this going for you Reyes1377? We have been having long run issues as well and have tried many different inks, fountain solutions and calcium fixes and are now trying different plates. After about 40k the non image area of the plate begins to take ink. We are currently running the Kodak Electra xd plate. Which fountain solution have you settled on?

 

[BeauchampT]

How is this going for you Reyes1377? We have been having long run issues as well and have tried many different inks, fountain solutions and calcium fixes and are now trying different plates. After about 40k the non image area of the plate begins to take ink. We are currently running the Kodak Electra xd plate. Which fountain solution have you settled on?

Okay, that sounds a little off. We run XD for very long runs and have never had this problem....Sounds like your fount chemistry to me, not the press.

 

[QualityPrint]

Yeah I wish it was the fountain solution as that would be an easy fix. As mentioned in my last post we have tried many different fountain solutions. 5 different ones to be exact. Even the ones specially formulated for komori presses. All with the same result.

This is a tough one.... It could be settings on the press, the plate, the way we are imaging and processing the plate, fountain solution (maybe the 5 we tried are just terrible (I don't think so)...

I was even thinking about trying a harder durometer roller to help this. Right now we get them in at 25.

BeauchampT: which fount do you use?

The battle goes on...