Konica Minolta's IQ-501

[clvrtrvr]

My shop just recently got the C12000 with the IQ-501. I love the print quality but we are currently battling an issue that seems to be impossible to fix by the third party techs.

The issue is print size. If I create a 12x18 box on a 13x19 sheet, the 12x18 box is not a true 12x18. its not the CD dimension that is the issue, it is the FD dimension. It isn't 18" in length its about 3/16" shorter. According to the tech's everything is within their specs. Granted we can modify the paper profile to stretch it etc but with the IQ-501 attached, when it checks it will just revert back to the incorrect size. I've managed to get it close by messing with the FD-Mag, but I feel that I shouldn't have to if the IQ-501 was setup correctly, but I have no way in telling if it has or not.

update: Techs have gotten the size "pretty close" and I have learned that the IQ-501 tells the main engine what to do. Regardless of the FD-Mag settings etc.

I feel that the IQ-501 should be a lot more accurate in the scheme of things. I think the biggest thing is metric vs standard measurements. (we are a shop on Ontario Canada and all our other shop equipment uses the standard measuring system). Maybe we are asking too much?

 

[Digi_Wiz]

Is your paper 100% at size , even paper that is 1/16th'' off can cause the final printed piece to be shrunken.

 

[narseman]

I know nothing about the IQ system.. But generally.. Sounds like a magnification calibration issue.
"Specs" may all be fine, but if it's miscalibrated, you're just compensating for error. Not fixing the problem.

 

[clvrtrvr]

For the most part our stock is relatively accurate. (I am sure we all know how mills are nowadays lol)

Not sure if this matters, but whenever I do an automeasure the chart it prints out is not centered nor is it straight.

 

[kslight]

I second the accuracy of your paper comment. I don’t have a KM machine anymore but the IQ was always squirrelly for me. I did end up back trimming certain papers to like 12.8x18.8 and making new profiles, this helped on stock that varied, but some papers were still a challenge every day, especially heavier stocks.

 

[clvrtrvr]

If the stock is out a lot we do trim two sides. Mostly it's barely out 1/32nd. Before our C12000 we had a ricoh 7110sx and sizing was never an issue. The sizing is off not just by overall. For example, we print 24 up business cards on 12x18. 3 Columns of 8 cards. If you were to measure one of the columns going down, the 1st and 2nd cards measure to be exactly 2", then the 3rd, 4th, 5th are not 2". Usually around the 6th card down, it starts to go back to being 2 inches.

 

[kslight]

If the stock is out a lot we do trim two sides. Mostly it's barely out 1/32nd. Before our C12000 we had a ricoh 7110sx and sizing was never an issue. The sizing is off not just by overall. For example, we print 24 up business cards on 12x18. 3 Columns of 8 cards. If you were to measure one of the columns going down, the 1st and 2nd cards measure to be exactly 2", then the 3rd, 4th, 5th are not 2". Usually around the 6th card down, it starts to go back to being 2 inches.

It sounds to me like perhaps the machine’s speed is varying slightly while imaging.

Is it off differently per sheet, does it change if you run simplex vs duplex, is there a pattern to the variance?

I used to have a test pattern I made several years ago that was basically a fine grid across the sheet horizontally and vertically where you can more easily see where it’s getting off. Maybe try making that and try a few different papers?

 

[clvrtrvr]

it always seems that its the non-operator side mostly. Funny I actually made my own test pattern file to print LOL. I have 3. one for 11x17, one for 12x18 and 1 for 13x19 stock. I've attached my 13x19 PDF here.

Personally, I believe it has something to do with the IQ not being setup correctly. I read somewhere on this forum someone saying that basically the techs needs to be on their A game when setting it up because if it isn't set right, you're just P* in the wind lol. Since the main machine does what the IQ tells it. We are dealing with a 3rd party dealer for KM and not dealing with KM Directly.

 

[Digi_Wiz]

It's possible if youre receiving these error messages frequently:
[Spot was detected by inline scanner1]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner2]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner1/2]

and use of the cleaning tool is not often or working that you may need to have your technician come and basically take the thing apart vacuum it all out then put it back together for you.
Our shop had an issue with image walking off the sheet and this was able to solve that.

 

[clvrtrvr]

It's possible if youre receiving these error messages frequently:
[Spot was detected by inline scanner1]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner2]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner1/2]

and use of the cleaning tool is not often or working that you may need to have your technician come and basically take the thing apart vacuum it all out then put it back together for you.
Our shop had an issue with image walking off the sheet and this was able to solve that.

What do you mean by "walking off the sheet"? Like the image was in position but as you ran a job it would slowly go out of position? Cause we do get that. I hope its not dust related as this thing hasn't been in here longer than 3 months lol.

 

[Digi_Wiz]

What do you mean by "walking off the sheet"? Like the image was in position but as you ran a job it would slowly go out of position? Cause we do get that. I hope its not dust related as this thing hasn't been in here longer than 3 months lol.

Yes exactly that. Your previous comment about the auto measure chart being skewed/off center every time is another reason to escalate to getting a technician out to do a thorough cleaning and resetting the IQ.

When you run your print mode auto measure setting how many sheets per batch and how many batches do you run before acceptable front/back registration?

 

[kslight]

It's possible if youre receiving these error messages frequently:
[Spot was detected by inline scanner1]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner2]

[Spot was detected by inline scanner1/2]

and use of the cleaning tool is not often or working that you may need to have your technician come and basically take the thing apart vacuum it all out then put it back together for you.
Our shop had an issue with image walking off the sheet and this was able to solve that.

Used to have this issue constantly on the KM we had. What a piss poor design.

 

[farcrowd]

@clvrtrvr I've run the IQ-501 on two different engines, and neither of them has exhibited these problems. Ours is also serviced by a third-party. It sounds to me like there are incorrect settings values somewhere. Maybe they were input during setup, or a procedure wasn't performed correctly. I would want someone to come through and re-setup the machine from scratch if it was that bad. For all they know, another tech could have flipped a dipswitch during set up that nobody else knows about. The IQ tells the engine what to do, but at the same time, if there are settings affecting engine output that are wrong, then everytime the IQ gives an instruction the engine screws up the interpretation. The result that the IQ sees is then not quite what was intended, and so the IQ gives another instruction to compensate for that, and it snowballs.

The only issue we've run into with the IQ is the "spots detected on scanner 2" issue that was previously mentioned, and that was on our previous unit. Haven't run into yet on our newer one. Aside from that, issue, the the IQ always performed as intended.

 

[clvrtrvr]

@clvrtrvr I've run the IQ-501 on two different engines, and neither of them has exhibited these problems. Ours is also serviced by a third-party. It sounds to me like there are incorrect settings values somewhere. Maybe they were input during setup, or a procedure wasn't performed correctly. I would want someone to come through and re-setup the machine from scratch if it was that bad. For all they know, another tech could have flipped a dipswitch during set up that nobody else knows about. The IQ tells the engine what to do, but at the same time, if there are settings affecting engine output that are wrong, then everytime the IQ gives an instruction the engine screws up the interpretation. The result that the IQ sees is then not quite what was intended, and so the IQ gives another instruction to compensate for that, and it snowballs.

The only issue we've run into with the IQ is the "spots detected on scanner 2" issue that was previously mentioned, and that was on our previous unit. Haven't run into yet on our newer one. Aside from that, issue, the the IQ always performed as intended.

I agree, that it needs to be redone from scratch. Given the latest issue where the image size fluctuate in the FD. This job I cut the sheets to a specific size and entered in the specific size in hopes that it would help with registration etc

The images are off a brochure 2up on 11.940 x 17.940 (cut from 12x18 to eliminate incorrect paper size). I have trimmed left, right and button just to crop mark line. For visual reference. The image where marks look relatively good in registration, that’s the lead edge of the sheet. The other image is the bottom of the sheet on the same size.

Image 1 - Top of sheet

Image 2 - Bottom of sheet

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Yeah. I would literally be taking them to court if they don't get it fixed in a week or two. You're being taken advantage of. Time to put your big boy pants on and get a good lawyer, immediately.

 

[jwheeler]

Similar to @farcrowd , we have two KM color engines with IQ's and don't have this issue. As you've seen from my other posts, I used to sell KM production gear (including many engines with IQ's), and this was not a problem I ever heard of from my accounts. It seems like you have a lemon (could be the print engine or the IQ). I'd suggest climbing the corporate ladder at the KM dealer and insist they get a specialist from KM direct out there. Each region has that one tech who all other techs call on when they can't figure it out...you need that guy.

At the very least, insist that your KM dealer swap the IQ to eliminate that variable. If it keeps doing it, then you know it's the engine. You could also try turning off the IQ and resetting the both-sides adjustment back to all zero's to see if the prints come out with accurate measurements, even if they don't align front-to-back during the test.

On a side note, we use the KM a little different than it's intended. We run a "both sides adjustment" before every 2-sided job. Then we turn off the IQ and just run the job. It runs much faster and the registration stays spot on. I'm always impressed how we can cut through a stack of paper and see an image on the end of the ream go nearly perfectly straight down.

A couple other things to try/check:

1. Make sure 'fit to page' or 'scale to fit' is not turned on anywhere - especially common if you're printing from Acrobat.
2. If you are printing from Acrobat or another application, try importing the PDF directly into the hold queue of the controller.

 

[cqb1988]

usually iq 501 doesnt do realtime adjustment. if registration fluctuates during the print, thats main engine issue.

 

[jwheeler]

usually iq 501 doesnt do realtime adjustment.

Yes it does. See attached screenshot. You can turn the feature on/off in the "Quality" tab of the print settings as shown at this link.

 

[cqb1988]

Yes it does. See attached screenshot. You can turn the feature on/off in the "Quality" tab of the print settings as shown at this link.

View attachment 293640

I meant "usually" lol, most people don't have this option installed

 

[jwheeler]

most people don't have this option installed

I'm guessing you mean to say "most people don't have this option activated"...? Just to clarify for others reading that there is nothing extra to install. If you have an IQ-501, the option to check color and alignment/registration is automatically available in the PS print driver, AccurioPro Print Manager, and/or in Fiery CWS. You can make it on by default, or manually turn it on for every job. It's worth noting that it only works when you print on over-sized sheets since the system needs to print marks and color bars along the edges and in the corners. The OP mentioned that he's printing 12x18 on 13x19, so it would work for him (if the system was functioning properly). You also have the option for the press to automatically check alignment before printing a job if you don't have oversized paper, and/or have it automatically check periodically throughout a job. These last 2 options are set in the individual tray "both-sides adjustment" tab on the machine touch screen.