Landa S10 Cost Per Impression Thoughts

[D Ink Man]

Wondering if anyone has calculated the cost per impression on the Landa S10 press that is being touted. Also wonder if there actually is any actual Landa presses running in a production mode at this point. The reason I point to 'cost per impression' is the probable monopoly that potentially would exist with the cost and implied warranties forced on buyers of the consumable INK from Landa. This I feel is where the profit would truly be grabbed if the technology would materialize. Generic nano particled ink and counter offerings to Landa nanoink would be strongly denied methinks from Benny and company. Consider everything here with this great sky in the pie up and comingner.

D Ink Man

 

[gordo]

You or one of your associates could chat with Imagine! in Minneapolis as they are listed as a beta site for the S10 press.

 

[D Ink Man]

You beta believe this has been a long, cold, costly hard run to date. No?

D

 

[gordo]

You beta believe this has been a long, cold, costly hard run to date. No?

D

Yes of course. But that doesn't matter. In this case the destination is more important than the journey.

 

[D Ink Man]

The destination is unaffordable for most companies. They may or may not realize this, and will probably have to find out the hard way. However, the theatrics displayed by Landa are unmatched, but is way too steep of a price for simply entertainment.

Don't lose sight about that nanoink and the potential monopolized price. I feel Benny is rubbing his hands together as the mechanical contraption is pieced together. The epilogue of the story will be that "INK", the vehicleless substance that it is. Really is unjust calling that stuff an ink. Just does not meet the criteria.

D INK Man

 

[gordo]

The destination is unaffordable for most companies. They may or may not realize this, and will probably have to find out the hard way. [SNIP] The epilogue of the story will be that "INK", the vehicleless substance that it is.[SNIP]

Any company with the means to purchase a Landa press would have the wherewithal to calculate the ROI. It is the ROI that determines whether the investment is affordable or not. Based on the ROI, what is unaffordable for one company may not be unaffordable for another. I suppose that instead of calling it "nanoink" he could have called it a "calibrated nanoscale polychromatic pigment deposition coagulator" - but I don't think that would roll off the tongue as readily.

 

[D Ink Man]

I like it; that is a great name for a science fictional menagerie.

D

 

[kansasquaker]

The original question is actually interesting tho. What is the production cost right now and what do they think it will be?

Gordo, you might give some companies too much credit for their ability to calculate ROI accurately. I have a lot of empirical data to back that up! Sometimes people get too excited about shiny and new and fail to fully consider a proposition. I'm not passing judgement on the Landa process either way, just speaking generally. The proof will be in the pudding I suppose, can't wait to taste it.

 

[D Ink Man]

If the pudding appears to be chocolate by one's vision, be very careful before it passes the lips to the tongue.

D

 

[gordo]

Gordo, you might give some companies too much credit for their ability to calculate ROI accurately.

Of course you are absolutely correct. Vendors have been counting on that for years. I was just trying to be PC about it. LOL

 

[D Ink Man]

So the point of the post is clear now as to the fly in the ointment. It lieth on the West Bank.

D

 

[gordo]

So the point of the post is clear now as to the fly in the ointment. It lieth on the West Bank.

D

I was responding to this post:

Gordo, you might give some companies too much credit for their ability to calculate ROI accurately. .

Note the qualifier "some" (meaning not all).

I originally wrote:

Any company with the means to purchase a Landa press would have the wherewithal to calculate the ROI.

Perhaps I should have said "should" instead of "would"?

 

[D Ink Man]

Gordo, you don't stand to be corrected. Stay seated, everything is just fine.

D

 

[D Ink Man]

The Landa faction deserves more comment on this subject. Please indulge our hard and smart workers of Print of the World.

D

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Wondering if anyone has calculated the cost per impression on the Landa S10 press that is being touted. Also wonder if there actually is any actual Landa presses running in a production mode at this point. The reason I point to 'cost per impression' is the probable monopoly that potentially would exist with the cost and implied warranties forced on buyers of the consumable INK from Landa. This I feel is where the profit would truly be grabbed if the technology would materialize. Generic nano particled ink and counter offerings to Landa nanoink would be strongly denied methinks from Benny and company. Consider everything here with this great sky in the pie up and comingner.

D Ink Man

At Drupa, the CEO (Amir) of Landa said that they were going to ship presses in the beginning of 2017. 2017 has started and at this time of year one usually gets some annual notice of some kind of delays. So far nothing has been announced but I suspect there will be something said soon either way.

I hope Landa will get the results they want soon but I have to say, I don't see that the concept has a big enough advantage. I could be wrong. I am happy to be surprised.

I am also eagerly waiting for some reports regarding the EZcolor inker by Cron. They too are in the process of development and hopefully testing at printers. I know this is not so easy to develop because I have experience developing an experimental pumping inker back in the early 1990's that ran in production (24/7) on four units of a press for several months, running EB inks.

Developing technology is difficult but it seems easy for the industry media to report that some new technology has a high level of performance even before it is in actual production. They even report that the costs are significant.

Unfortunately the media does not worry about the reality that finally might arrive. An of course, the speculation about cost per impression can be fake news until the final results come in. Fun to follow.

Updated info,

I just noticed that at InfoTrends in Dec 2016, Komori stated that their version of the S10, the NS40 will be fully available in the Spring of 2018 after NS40 is finished its beta testing at a printer in Belgium with Landa.

 

[D Ink Man]

Thank you for your contribution Erik. It was wonderful per usual.

D

 

[arossetti]

Honest question; what would be the value of the Landa S10 over a B1 sized Indigo? Is it just speed?

 

[AP90]

Honest question; what would be the value of the Landa S10 over a B1 sized Indigo? Is it just speed?

From what was first being said about the Landa was that it was going to be much cheaper per impression. But idk how true that is because no one has been able to provide any type of "click charge" or anything.

 

[DannyB]

From what i can see it seems the selling point of the s10 is that it is SUPPOSED to be the perfect combo of offset and and variable data printing. It appears that it has the speed and quality of a heidelberg with the automation and variable capabilities of the indigo. Now whether or not it is actually going to live up to the hype we will not know for awhile. I believe if it works the way landa promotes it then there are companies that could benefit. Any one that still has the workload for a big iron heidelberg or kamori that also wants to dive into variable data could use it. As far as click charges i don't think it will have much success if it is much higher than that of the indigo or igen. As a side note it looks like a uk company called reflex labels has put in the first official order for one of these bad boys so they would be the ones to watch.

 

[AP90]

As far as click charges i don't think it will have much success if it is much higher than that of the indigo or igen. As a side note it looks like a uk company called reflex labels has put in the first official order for one of these bad boys so they would be the ones to watch.

I think your pretty wrong here. To me they would have to have a click charge significantly lower than the iGen or indigo. From everything I read, with what they're wanting to do, they need to shoot for offset cost per impression to the 20 and 30 THOUSAND impression marks. To me it does no good to have a machine that can run like the heidelbergs of the cost is still going to be the same as running an iGen. All it means is your getting to the end of a run faster. Which is good, but I don't see there being a huge need for that except in just a few companies.

Now if a company can use it to do massive variable data jobs AND static long runs that would normally be done offset, then we're talking something spectacular.