Long PC File Name Fix?

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

How are you managing your fonts? Testing here has shown that CIFS mounted fonts will install with Suitcase (12.1.3) ok and work with QX, but not with Adobe apps (that's a first, usually its the other way around).

It appears to work with our backup system as well, though there is some managable strangeness with the retv'd files. We are using Retrospect 7.0.249 on a Windows Server 2003. For some reason I'm getting an extra folder with a truncated name. But I can live with that.

 

[William Campbell]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

> How are you managing your fonts?
>

Fontbook, though most of the time simply copying needed fonts to the users font folder. I keep an alias on my desktop. I have trimmed the system fonts to the minimum to avoid conflicts, and fill the user font folder with those supplied by the particular job at hand. When done, I dump it back to empty, ready for the next job and it's specific fonts. Sometimes the application (ID, AI, XPress) fail to realize fonts have swapped, switching over to Fontbook and disabling the fonts and re-enabling usually works. In worst cases, close the app and re-open.

I gave up on Suitcase years ago. Same thing on Windows. Copy needed fonts into the font folder. Easy. No extra expense for utilities that work no better than what either system is capable of on their own.

> It appears to work with our backup system as well, though there is some manageable strangeness with the retv'd files. We are using Retrospect 7.0.249 on a Windows Server 2003. For some reason I'm getting an extra folder with a truncated name. But I can live with that.
>

I also use Retrospect and have no issues. Not sure about the extra folder. One thing that is important, you must NOT create a selector that ignores system and hidden files. The Mac resource forks are all hidden files. If you don't back them up they are gone (all Mac fonts!) To see the resource forks so you're aware of the files, at the Windows server (or any Win workstation for that matter), enable "show hidden files." Explorer, tools menu, folder options, view tab, advanced settings, click the radio button "Show hidden files and folders." I also recommend deselecting "Hide extensions for known file types." That one's annoying, to see files without their extension.

The hidden files you will now see have the same names as the main file, prefixed with "._" These are the resource forks, which of course, hold the entirety of the font data for Mac fonts.

I'm still curious about this extra folder, with a truncated name. Is it the truncated name of another folder selected? Is it apparent what the folder relates to? As in another existing folder?

 

[William Campbell]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

> I'd love to give AFP the boot.
>

You can, if you don't have old data. The only reason I keep one AFP share available is that I have ten years of jobs archived using Windows Restrospect that were stored on the server via AFP and MS Services for Mac. So all that data is stored the "old way" in a single file with two streams, one for data, one for resource fork. The only way to recover those resource forks is to restore the files to a volume that is shared via AFP, log on from OSX via AFP, then copy the files from the AFP volume to a CIFS volume (so they are no longer be stored "the old way").

If it wasn't for the legacy files, I'd have turned of all AppleTalk some time ago.

So it all depends on how your old (finished) jobs are archived. How are they? Depending on the answer, you may be able to turn off AppleTalk today and never look back.

 

[Joe]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

> {quote:title=William Campbell wrote:}{quote}

> They decompress and are ready to use, resource forks intact. I do it daily.
>
> The misconception is that CIFS won't behave like AFP. It will, only better (faster and long names). The apparency that it won't work or drop resource forks comes from mixing the two protocols within a single work environment (copying one way and accessing another). If you copy the sit via CIFS and decompress at the same workstation, or another connected via CIFS, it all works. What happens is that many prep departments are ignorant of these differences in network protocols and have their Macs (even OSX Macs, since they can log on either way) mounted to the server in different manners. One is CIFS, another AFP, the next one who knows what. THAT is what causes the problem. Decide on the standard means by which ALL Mac workstation will log into the server and enforce it. Problem solved. That's why I suggested changing the name of the Mac share (old mac share using MS SFM) to something different. That triggers the old "Huh? What changed here?" and operators more easily realize they are not logging in correctly.


Thanks for that explanation. Sounds promising.

 

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

I remember when OS X was first released being excited about not having to use Suitcase, but at the time the real world experience proved to painful. But Font Book and OS X have matured. I'll try it the for awhile and see if I can overcome my addiction to Suitcase (dragging fonts to the dock to load them, previewing multiple fonts at once) before I spread the idea to my coworkers.

Thanks William for your excellent explanations. I'll have a couple of beers in your honor this weekend!!

 

[doubting_thomas]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

William,

"Luckily" we're pretty low tech when it comes to archiving. All of our work stations have secondary
hard drives the get backed up to nightly, and every month or so we archive to CD. I only have about
7 gigs of legacy files to worry about at the moment which I've already pulled off of the server using
AFP. Tonight I'll put them back. AFP seems to always be a back up in case of emergency, I guess,
but I certainly wouldn't miss it.

Thanks for your input on the matter.

 

[Joe]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

Nexus does not like SMB/CIFS. All my links and pages (CT - LW files) are showing up as Unix Executables. Preps isn't too happy about it either.

FileMaker Pro also won't open my databases from the SMB/CIFS share. Less promising.

Edited by: Joe on Jan 18, 2008 10:35 PM

 

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

My Nexus links (windows format with extension) and pages (CT-LW, have Unix icon in Finder but not in Open dialog) work correctly with CIFS when opening directly from InSight, but the NexusEdit button in NexusManager does not. And that's a deal breaker. I'll contact Tech support and see what they have to say.

I'm using FileMakerPro Server (TCP/IP) running on a windows server, no issue there.

I'm doing my impositions in InDesign or Quack.

Edited by: GinSu on Jan 20, 2008 1:26 PM

 

[William Campbell]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

Not a user of Nexus, I couldn't say for sure why, but I do know OSX is now far more extension aware than older Mac OS were (Window's simple answer to Finder flags, which Mac is finally adhering to). Preps works fine so long as its files have the proper extension (.tpl for templates). Although, I only use Preps to create templates, never to process a job, since imposition is built into my workflow. And besides, I have since switched to running Preps on Windows, the same for just about every other application except for layout applications when jobs are built on Mac, and use Mac specific fonts (not TT or OTF, which can go either way). Our Windows boxes are doing all the work, the Macs are here only because of the jobs that demand it.

So my first suggestion (guess) would be to ensure files get labeled with the proper extension, and see what difference that makes. A better suggestion would be to run client applications on the same platform as the server. Why not? If your workflow runs on top of Windows (which it sounds like it does, though I'm only guessing here), and other supporting systems run on top of Windows (Filemaker?), why are you viewing/accessing/controlling those server applications via another platform? Why not run the Windows client?

I'm not trying to start a flame war over platforms. Really, I'm not. I may have some PC bias, since I've used them since their introduction in 1981, and did not until 1992 start using a Mac. But since that time I've had both platforms on my desk and equally used daily, all those years, so I am qualified to say -- a computer is a computer. We could also argue the virtues of Chevy versus Ford, but a car is a car. Set aside bias for any one platform and try each for each job at hand and determine for yourself, not blind faith, which platform is more efficient for each particular job. Each platform has its strengths, and in most cases where the server portion of a workflow runs on top of Windows, the client is more efficient on that same platform. Which brings up another point worth examining -- why are the majority of workflows not running atop MacOS?

Anyway, my best answer to the original concern, check on the file extensions, make sure the files have them assigned correctly, and see if that helps. Also consider, workflow files stored an old way versus a new way, it could be a case of existing jobs and their supporting files are stored the old way. Start up a brand new job in the workflow while logged in via CIFS, and see if the result is any different.

 

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

Nexus client software will run on Mac OS only. There was a time when you could get the server software for Mac or Windows, but at the time the performance hit to go Mac was too steep. I'm not sure if its still available for Mac OS, but if it is I'll bet the performance hit is now negligible.

I too recognize that a computer is a computer and have used both daily for years. I prefer the Mac OS over Windows (extensions can only be associated with a single app!?) partly because it looks better, I can navigate windows open on the desktop to application Open/Save dialogs with a simple click/drag and, at least for now, its more secure. (Boss: "But this PC box is cheaper!", Me: "Did you add in five years of virus software and upgrades?")

 

[William Campbell]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

> Nexus client software will run on Mac OS only.
>

That's weird. No client for the platform on which the server runs? I suppose it could be a matter of the market Nexus serves, and what its users request. If most prefer Mac and no one asks for a Windows client, the manufacturer isn't going to waste resources on coding one.

I know what you mean about "looks" better. In many cases Mac does, and has for some time. It's also a matter a feel. Some applications, even though now incredibly similar despite platform, just "feel" better on one over the other. For me, Photoshop feels better on a Mac, perhaps since I've spent much time in it on that platform. But Acrobat feels better on Windows. Probably the same reason -- I started using it on Win, and always have. It never felt right on a Mac. Preps is bittersweet. It definitely "looks and feels" better, prettier, on a Mac. But after trying it on Windows (because the Win client for my workflow can launch into it from the template list), I've found the difference in performance is amazing. Everything about the application responds faster, and you get hooked quick. Now used to it's uglier Windows look (but then, Preps never did have the prettiest interface), I won't be going back to Mac due to getting spoiled by better performance.

> at least for now, its more secure. (Boss: "But this PC box is cheaper!", Me: "Did you add in five years of virus software and upgrades?")
>

Get a SonicWall. The tank of firewalls. Between that and Alt-n's MDaemon mail server with exceptional virus/spam handling, for us, all that security headache just doesn't exist anymore. But I know what you're saying, Macs don't get anywhere near the attacks. But on the other hand, consider why. Those mischievous hackers attack Windows because of popularity. The user base is ten times that of Mac (if not more).

 

[Joe]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

> {quote:title=GinSu wrote:}{quote}
> My Nexus links (windows format with extension) and pages (CT-LW, have Unix icon in Finder but not in Open dialog) work correctly with CIFS when opening directly from InSight, but the NexusEdit button in NexusManager does not. And that's a deal breaker. I'll contact Tech support and see what they have to say.
>
> I'm using FileMakerPro Server (TCP/IP) running on a windows server, no issue there.
>
> I'm doing my impositions in InDesign or Quack.
>
> Edited by: GinSu on Jan 20, 2008 1:26 PM


Yeah, viewing the files from Nexus Manager not working is a deal breaker for me too. I'm sure I could get the FM databases to work for OS X users if I added the file extensions to them and recopied them back onto the CIFS share. The problem there is we still have OS 9 computers using the FM databases as well as our file server. Until we now longer have to support OS 9 and Nexus giving up Appletalk I suppose I'll be sticking with the headaches of long file names on AFP shares. Not to mention our 7 years worth of backups that would have to pulled off of tape to an AFP share.

 

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

I contacted AWS (or is it EAWS??) and have included their response here:

"Nexus currently only support Services for Mac to determine where the Mac share is located. At this point we have no information of what will be used in the future. The request for smb support has been logged with NexusEdit and Insight. The Open Output is the problem with anything other than Services for Mac.

On Jan 21, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Randy wrote:

Long,
Thanks for your response but you didn't answer my question.
The CIFS protocol is compatible with Mac OS X type and creator (resource fork) provided the Mac files are copied/written using CIFS and my use of extensions with Nexus files mean that I not concerned about preview, creator and file type loss. I am concerned about the loss of Open output and my question still is:
Will future versions of Nexus offer the ability to chose CIFS instead of AFP?

Randy

On Jan 21, 2008, at 2:13 PM, AWS NA Support wrote:

Randy,
Using anything else but AFP will cause
1. Open output stop working
2. Potential lost of preview, creator and file type.
If these are not imppotant to you then you can use any other method to mount Nexus_Mac but if they are important then you must use AFP.

Long Nguyen
EskoArtwork
Tel. +1 215 826 4520 - Fax +1 215 826 4515
219A Rittenhouse Circle - Bristol Ð PA 19007 - USA
[email protected] - www.esko.com
[email protected] - www.artwork-systems.com

****************************************************

On Monday, January 21, 2008 2:53 PM, wrote:
I recently learned that using CIFS to connect to my Windows
server would allow me to use long filenames for my Mac OS X
files. There are a few issues (won't read existing
AFP resources only resources copied using CIFS, won't work with
Suitcases and Adobe apps) and I can get around all of these
issues.
The one issue I can't get around without getting more of a
headache than dealing with long filenames in AFP is that the
NexusEdit button in NexusManager won't work with CIFS volumes,
it will launch Insight but doesn't open the file. Is there any
plan in future versions of NexusManager to change this? It is
certainly preferable to use CIFS if possible rather than
spending money on ExtremeZIP with its varying degrees of
compatibility.

Randy"

SO...I'm not holding my breath.

 

[GinSu]

Re: Long PC File Name Fix?

I'm trying CIFS for a select few jobs, but here's another reason that CIFS is not an adequate substitute for AFP.

I'm not able to burn fonts from a CIFS volume to CD/DVD. Well, technically, I can burn them but it fails the verification saying it is unable to read from the original CIFS volume. Switch just the fonts to an AFP volume and burn completes and verifies correctly.

 

[David Ingram]

try this... maybe

try this... maybe

Hi, anybody know how to stop long file names from changing and adding the " ~ "?

It's becoming more of a problem now that we use and Esko Rip... copy the job files to the PC and then if we copy them back to the Mac to edit, it shortens the file names and makes them ALL CAPS and ends with a " ~ ".

Using OS X Tiger

Found online info on this old control panel called Joliet Volume Access, but that was for OS 9.

thanks for any help!

1) Keep job all on Mac Platform?
2) Use Stuffit (Dropstuff) to a .zip a folder instead of networking native files?
3) Use Retrospect on MAC for Mac Jobs.

aside ---why does a job go from mac to pc to back to mac? why not edit it on the platform it was created on and avoid all the hassles entirely? (additional workstations required?) Do the fonts still not read as fonts on the PC? is that the networking is changing the names of all the LINKS, or its making the fonts un-useable? Is this going back to old files? (OS9) or old servers (fat 32) or other non -NTFS PC volumes? AND what are you using to let them talk to each other? If it's PCmaclan for OS9, OSX can communicate to Windows XP, 2000, 2003 etc. using newer protocols as discussed... already.

Maybe it would help to if you describe a regular workflow and what the end product is, be it plate or film or some other output. is Esko rip a Harlequin or adobe, and is it running 1 or more devices and how do you send jobs to it?

 

[cccarmody]

I've just always compressed the files using zip or stuffit, then move the compressed file to the other computer.