Make All Layers Visible

[chevalier]

Perhaps I'm having a brainfart this morning but I cannot seem to the find the ticket that has (had?) an option to make all layers in a PDF file visible. I'm thinking maybe this was changed to "Update Layer Printability" in the Optimize PDF Document process for AE14? I don't necessarily want to make all layers printable but I do want to to make all visible. Visibility and printability are not the same thing.

I know this exists as I used it in the past for products with different warnings. Each warning was on the original file but only one layer was set visible. Once approved I'd run the PDF through a workflow that made all layers visible then had a series of optimize tickets that removed all but one warning and generated a complete series of PDFs. Unfortunately, I no longer have that workflow.

 

[chevalier]

Looks like ESKO removed this in 14 assuming that printability and visibility are the same thing. WTF Esko?

AE 14 Manual - Optimize PDF Document ticket, Layers Tab

Action 3: Add Layers
Use this to add empty layers to all pages of your PDF.

Click Add and enter the name of the layer to add. Repeat as necessary.

Update Layer Printability: Select how to handle layers’ printability in your document. You can choose either:

Don't Change Layer Printability,
Make All Layers Printable,
Remove Non Printable Layers.

AE 12 Manual - Optimize PDF Document ticket, Layers Tab

Action 3: Add Layers
Use this to add empty layers to all pages of your PDF.

Click Add and enter the name of the layer to add. Repeat as necessary.

Update Layer Visibility: Select how to handle layers’ visibility in your document. You can choose either:

Don't Change Layer Visibility,
Make All Layers Visible,
Remove Non Visible Layers.
Update Layer Printability: Select how to handle layers’ printability in your document. You can choose either:

Don't Change Layer Printability,
Make All Layers Printable,
Remove Non Printable Layers.

 

[chevalier]

Workaround:
Insert a "Preflight with PitStop" ticket in front of the "Optimize PDF Document" ticket using an Action List to make all layers visible.

I'm astounded that this basic feature was silently removed. Layers are a major and integral part of a modern PDF workflow. Why make this harder and more complex using an external routine?

 

[chevalier]

Esko (and Enfocus) treat printable and visible as the same attribute. It's been this way for a while and this appears to have been seen as a "bug" fix. The "bug" was that they never built in support for printable/not-printable and refuse to properly implement it. Outrageous. This has been built into Illustrator and PDF for how long?

 

[PrepressDan]

Chev, stop answering your own questions. I was about to jump in and tell you that you could do this with both a Pitstop actionlist and Artpro Actionlist.

 

[chevalier]

Chev, stop answering your own questions. I was about to jump in and tell you that you could do this with both a Pitstop actionlist and Artpro Actionlist.

This started as a troubleshoot and ended up as a major rant. I'm still peeved about this.

 

[chevalier]

Important note that I forgot to add... based on (very lazy) Esko logic that there is no difference between layer printability and layer visibility in a PDF: Using the ticket to make all layers "Printable" generates the same result as using the PitStop ActionList to make all layers "Visible"...

 

[abc]

Will check with Enfocus Development about this.
I (Enfocus) am not aware of any request/bug reported for this Printable/Visible issue.
With the new version we released today (PitStop 12u3) we have a large number of new Actions for working with PDF layers so this is definitely in the scope of what we are doing.
However layers in Illustrator are not the same as Optional Content Groups (layers) in PDF, so I just need to talk to development about the definition in the PDF spec.
I know we've talked before off-thread, so send me a PM or email with your details and we can go through it.

BTW I just wanted to mention that we have not removed any functionality in PitStop. I can't speak for Esko, but PitStop functionality has not changed.
ie we have not removed anything. On the contrary we have added a load of stuff!

 

[chevalier]

Will check with Enfocus Development about this.
However layers in Illustrator are not the same as Optional Content Groups (layers) in PDF, so I just need to talk to development about the definition in the PDF spec.

Yes, this was explained to me through a support ticket with Esko. I don't buy "Illustrator converts/flags non-printable layers to non-visible when converted (Save as..) or when an Ai is opened as PDF" (paraphrased) as a valid excuse not to support it. I take that to mean Adobe also needs to get it properly resolved within Illustrator as well.

BTW I just wanted to mention that we have not removed any functionality in PitStop. I can't speak for Esko, but PitStop functionality has not changed.
ie we have not removed anything. On the contrary we have added a load of stuff!

I did not intend to imply that functionality had been removed by Enfocus. However visibility and printability are being treated the same by PitStop action lists (when you make them visible they are also printable). I think Esko dev removed it from the AE ticket centrally because it was redundant. If visible layers are printable layers "make all layers visible" was doing the same thing as "make all layers printable". It might confuse a user into believing a newly visible layer via the ticket would not print/plate, etc.

 

[chevalier]

If you received the last message #9 via e-mail I have heavily edited after posting. It was a mess. I shouldn't try to eat lunch and post at the same time.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

The image attachment compares what is available in Acrobat Pro to PitStop Pro.


Stephen Marsh

 

[chevalier]

I searched and read up on OCG (layers) and went through some of the technical documentation on some other workflows. In all fairness the "printable/not-printable" feature is being ignored printing industry wide as far as I can tell. Adobe is also ignoring this with their Creative Suite apps (except Acrobat) as far as I can tell. There are other industries using this "printable/not-printable" layer feature but the printing industry isn't?



A little history:
This feature has been around since PDF 1.5 (Acrobat 6) which was released in 2003. OCG (layers) is even supported by PDF/X4 adopted in 2008 (ISO 15930-7). Which is based on PDF1.6.

As someone with some background in user interface design and user experience (ui / ux) I can understand how novice users could become extremely confused by things that are visible yet not printable. However, that does not mean that advanced users should be neglected nor that users should not be trained and empowered. Some will likely assume if it isn't being supported and isn't being clamored for that it probably isn't very useful.

Here are some useful places just off the top of my head:
Die line layers
Annotation layers
Notes layers
Coating layers
Embossing layers
Foiling layers
Resource layers

 

[Stephen Marsh]

An example of using visible/print OCG/layer options:

https://answers.acrobatusers.com/Can-I-set-PDF-view-version-separate-print-version-q210221.aspx


Stephen Marsh

 

[abc]

Here are some useful places just off the top of my head:
Die line layers
Annotation layers
Notes layers
Coating layers
Embossing layers
Foiling layers
Resource layers

this might be of interest for you, this is currently going to ISO to become a future standard.
http://www.gwg.org/wp-content/uploads/GWG-pdf-with-processing-steps.pdf

 

[chevalier]

this might be of interest for you, this is currently going to ISO to become a future standard.
http://www.gwg.org/wp-content/uploads/GWG-pdf-with-processing-steps.pdf

Very interesting - basically taking what's there (printable/not-printable) not being utilized but expanding on it... I'm all for it as long as somebody actually allows you to use it.

 

[chevalier]

Andrew,

I wanted to thank you for providing useful info about this. I wish this was the kind of response I had gotten from my support request with Esko. At least knowing that improvement, feature utilization and enrichment is being attempted in the background is better than being told to just deal with it as it is.