Profiled a new canvas media using Caldera RIP's built in color profiling software "Easy Media" and an XRite i1. Results are oversaturated colors and beige/tan colors have too much magenta. Any help or insight is appreciated. Could it be a result of the profile compensating for optical brighteners in the media that I did not account for in my profile settings? Ink Limits? Need some direction here, thanks!
Mimaki CJV-300 - color correcting a custom profile
- Thread starter Chris C.
- Start date
Stephen Marsh
Well-known member
Start by looking at the measurement data. What condition is it: M0, M1 or M2? What is the L*a*b* value of the media? Look into your colour management settings, perhaps there is an incorrect setup. Have you successfully created profiles with the same setup for other media?
Stephen Marsh
Stephen Marsh
Thank you Stephen for your response! I will look into the condition settings, Lab data and color management settings and have to get that information back to you to see if something looks odd or stands out. I have set up successful profiles on adhesive vinyl, other canvas media, several types of photo/poster papers using similar settings with Caldera "Easy Media" on this same Mimaki CJV-300. I have also had one particular canvas media previously that I was never able to successfully profile due to banding issues (despite exhaustive media feed, heater setting adjustments). My current project is this new canvas media which has resulted in no banding issues but the previously mentioned color issues. I've experienced a similar color problem with beige/tan/skin tones on a different printer (Epson 9370 Dye Sub). I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing or not accounting for with certain media that has landed me with a similar issue. Caldera RIP and i1 spectrophotometer have been used on all of the above.
Are you simulating a print condition (i.e. Simulation profile set to GRACoL)? Or are the color issues you're mentioning a result of when you print a test file with the media profile that you just created? The media profile you just created would be maximizing saturation, and may not be grey balanced.
What are you comparing to when you come to the conclusion of "oversaturated" and "too much magenta"? If you'd like to target a specific print condition, for example, the output on another media type, or GRACoL, you could load the other media profile you're trying to align to or the GRACoL profile as the simulation profile in the RIP and see how you fare.
If you're questioning Caldera's profiling tool, try building the profile outside of Caldera (you may have an active license of i1Profiler), and see if it produces different results. Most RIPs will allow you to build the profile in a 3rd party software, however, sometimes the process is cumbersome.
michaelejahn
Well-known member
Michael Jahn likes "If you're questioning Caldera's profiling tool, try building the profile outside of Caldera"
Nathan D,
The color issues I'm mentioning are when I print a test file with the media profile that I just created. Regarding "oversaturated" and "too much magenta", I'm comparing to a print of the same image on our older canvas media that I'm trying to match results to. I plan to create a profile outside of Caldera using the XRite profiling capability that came with our XRite i1 spectrophotometer to compare those results and see if the issue is with Caldera's "Easy Media" profiling tool. Thank you for your input and I hope to respond later with better results.
The color issues I'm mentioning are when I print a test file with the media profile that I just created. Regarding "oversaturated" and "too much magenta", I'm comparing to a print of the same image on our older canvas media that I'm trying to match results to. I plan to create a profile outside of Caldera using the XRite profiling capability that came with our XRite i1 spectrophotometer to compare those results and see if the issue is with Caldera's "Easy Media" profiling tool. Thank you for your input and I hope to respond later with better results.
Stephen Marsh,
The condition is currently set to M1 (D50). I actually don't know the L*a*b* values of the media, so I will have to find that out.
The condition is currently set to M1 (D50). I actually don't know the L*a*b* values of the media, so I will have to find that out.
Correct Color
Well-known member
To be frank...
Profile-making is an art more than it is a science. Honestly, if you feel the need to look for answers online, I'd say your level of expertise might be your biggest issue.
However, I would point out that "grey balancing" is most definitely not your issue. Properly made ICC profiles in inkjet printing do not need to be grey balanced.
Also, note that over-saturation itself is caused in the creation of the machine state process in any RIP -- not just Caldera -- so the engine that makes the ICC itself can only work with the machine state you give it.
Also note that while there are several different ICC profile-making engines out there, and some can create drastically different profiles, the engine in Caldera is the same engine as is in i1 Profiler -- although with some feature limitations, -- so unless you are a very savvy user and use those features, you're going to get the same result with an ICC created in Easy Media or i1 Profiler.
What I'd question is how you know the sample you're attempting to match is correct.
You've got an image you printed using some other profile in some other RIP and you're absolutely certain it's correct?
Maybe the profile you've made in Caldera is better than that one and is more accurately rendering the image.
Just a thought.
Mike Adams
Correct Color
Profile-making is an art more than it is a science. Honestly, if you feel the need to look for answers online, I'd say your level of expertise might be your biggest issue.
However, I would point out that "grey balancing" is most definitely not your issue. Properly made ICC profiles in inkjet printing do not need to be grey balanced.
Also, note that over-saturation itself is caused in the creation of the machine state process in any RIP -- not just Caldera -- so the engine that makes the ICC itself can only work with the machine state you give it.
Also note that while there are several different ICC profile-making engines out there, and some can create drastically different profiles, the engine in Caldera is the same engine as is in i1 Profiler -- although with some feature limitations, -- so unless you are a very savvy user and use those features, you're going to get the same result with an ICC created in Easy Media or i1 Profiler.
What I'd question is how you know the sample you're attempting to match is correct.
You've got an image you printed using some other profile in some other RIP and you're absolutely certain it's correct?
Maybe the profile you've made in Caldera is better than that one and is more accurately rendering the image.
Just a thought.
Mike Adams
Correct Color
Mike Adams
Correct Color,
I appreciate the thoughts and input you provided regarding my profiling issues. I apologize for the late response but have been out of the office for other obligations the last two weeks. I'm definitely no expert in the art of profiling which is why I have been seeking online advise from others who know a great deal more than I do about the process. I'm attaching an example of an original digital image vs. the output I am supposed to be similarly matching and the output from my new canvas media with current profile. When I look at all three together, I see issues with both the old media profile and my current one that probably need addressed/adjusted in order to match the original image. First attachment labeled"DigitalOriginal" is the art file provided to me by a customer. Second file labeled "NewOld_output" is results of my new profile on the left side and the old profile I am trying to match closely to on the right side.
Correct Color,
I appreciate the thoughts and input you provided regarding my profiling issues. I apologize for the late response but have been out of the office for other obligations the last two weeks. I'm definitely no expert in the art of profiling which is why I have been seeking online advise from others who know a great deal more than I do about the process. I'm attaching an example of an original digital image vs. the output I am supposed to be similarly matching and the output from my new canvas media with current profile. When I look at all three together, I see issues with both the old media profile and my current one that probably need addressed/adjusted in order to match the original image. First attachment labeled"DigitalOriginal" is the art file provided to me by a customer. Second file labeled "NewOld_output" is results of my new profile on the left side and the old profile I am trying to match closely to on the right side.
Attachments
Correct Color
Well-known member
Chris,
The thing I'd attempt to impress on you is that "matching" one profile to another profile isn't the way it works.
It's a fool's game to try.
The idea of profiling is basically to create a machine state -- the inking controls that are RIP specific -- and then to characterize the machine in that state; that characterization being the ICC profile.
And the end goal of the process is to be able to print the images you send the RIP correctly. Correctly meaning as close as you possibly can to match the L*a*b* values of the individual pixels in the digital file to the L*a*b* values in the printed image. And if you do that, then your printed images will match your originals as well as white point and gamut will allow.
So in this case, if the original file is what you sent the printer, I'd note first that it's not a particularly large-gamut image. The red and blue in the flag are the only two colors that should mute back just a bit, but otherwise, it should reproduce faithfully on your Mimaki.
And what I'd note of the two printed image samples is that each one just looks like a poorly made profile, not issues associated with any particular profile-making engine. Setting aside the obvious color issues, I'd note that both of them have some posterization going on in the flesh tones, and it appears all shadow detail in the jacket has been lost.
And that may very well be due to settings in the ICC profile build, but it's not due to the engine itself. Since the engine in Caldera and in i1 Profiler are the same, you could get these results from either engine.
And what I'd say, as gently as I can, is that it's also a fools game to try to get much better than this by looking for answers on the Internet. There is a ton of information out there online about color management and machine profiling out there -- and most of it is wrong. And you will waste an awful lot of time and money figuring that out.
If you're really serious, get professional help. It will save you money in the long run.
Mike Adams
Correct Color
The thing I'd attempt to impress on you is that "matching" one profile to another profile isn't the way it works.
It's a fool's game to try.
The idea of profiling is basically to create a machine state -- the inking controls that are RIP specific -- and then to characterize the machine in that state; that characterization being the ICC profile.
And the end goal of the process is to be able to print the images you send the RIP correctly. Correctly meaning as close as you possibly can to match the L*a*b* values of the individual pixels in the digital file to the L*a*b* values in the printed image. And if you do that, then your printed images will match your originals as well as white point and gamut will allow.
So in this case, if the original file is what you sent the printer, I'd note first that it's not a particularly large-gamut image. The red and blue in the flag are the only two colors that should mute back just a bit, but otherwise, it should reproduce faithfully on your Mimaki.
And what I'd note of the two printed image samples is that each one just looks like a poorly made profile, not issues associated with any particular profile-making engine. Setting aside the obvious color issues, I'd note that both of them have some posterization going on in the flesh tones, and it appears all shadow detail in the jacket has been lost.
And that may very well be due to settings in the ICC profile build, but it's not due to the engine itself. Since the engine in Caldera and in i1 Profiler are the same, you could get these results from either engine.
And what I'd say, as gently as I can, is that it's also a fools game to try to get much better than this by looking for answers on the Internet. There is a ton of information out there online about color management and machine profiling out there -- and most of it is wrong. And you will waste an awful lot of time and money figuring that out.
If you're really serious, get professional help. It will save you money in the long run.
Mike Adams
Correct Color
Similar threads
PressWise
|
A 30-day Fix for Managed Chaos
As any print professional knows, printing can be managed chaos. Software that solves multiple problems and provides measurable and monetizable value has a direct impact on the bottom-line. “We reduced order entry costs by about 40%.” Significant savings in a shop that turns about 500 jobs a month. Learn how……. |
