Minolta c6501 - Black text prints as CMYK, any solution?
- Thread starter bgardner
- Start date
Well, I'd say I've learnt more from the books and experience than I have from the specialists. They've given me some pretty silly tips and advice over the years.. I still recommend you read the manuals, is useful to know the ins-and-outs of your RIP.
Have you tried those settings I gave you? Looking back on the thread I notice someone else has said that too.. If your file is definitely set up right, and the engine doesn't have any weird funky settings on it then those Fiery settings should work. If they don't I'd be tempted to reload the RIP.
Have you tried those settings I gave you? Looking back on the thread I notice someone else has said that too.. If your file is definitely set up right, and the engine doesn't have any weird funky settings on it then those Fiery settings should work. If they don't I'd be tempted to reload the RIP.
Alith7
Well-known member
Quick graphic illustration....
We run into this a lot in our shops, and generally, the KM techs don't know much of anything. dealing with blacks, and transparencies can often cause a lot of problems.
Your general expert color screen:
starting with the RGB section, these are your options for black (our shops default is "off"):
You may want to try turning this on for "text/graphics/images" at least until you get this all sorted.
then the CMYK settings:
obviously you want to make sure that it is on "text/graphics/images" or you will get the problems you are having.
Cont....
We run into this a lot in our shops, and generally, the KM techs don't know much of anything. dealing with blacks, and transparencies can often cause a lot of problems.
Your general expert color screen:
starting with the RGB section, these are your options for black (our shops default is "off"):
You may want to try turning this on for "text/graphics/images" at least until you get this all sorted.
then the CMYK settings:
obviously you want to make sure that it is on "text/graphics/images" or you will get the problems you are having.
Cont....
Alith7
Well-known member
Cont....
there are two areas to check for the black settings:
&
for the first one, you don't want to use "rich black" as that is CMYK black and will DEFINITELY cause problems, however sometimes you need to try either "pure black" or "normal" sometimes they produce different results. For your problems, I would highly recommend trying "Normal" the less the RIP is trying to be "smarter than you" and modify your files, the more likely your files will print correctly.
The last one is "Black overprint" which you may also want to play with.
sometimes, this can cause problems, especially with drop shadows, where the areas that flattened out for the drop shadow will print "blocky" and a different color than the rest of the background.
there are two areas to check for the black settings:
for the first one, you don't want to use "rich black" as that is CMYK black and will DEFINITELY cause problems, however sometimes you need to try either "pure black" or "normal" sometimes they produce different results. For your problems, I would highly recommend trying "Normal" the less the RIP is trying to be "smarter than you" and modify your files, the more likely your files will print correctly.
The last one is "Black overprint" which you may also want to play with.
sometimes, this can cause problems, especially with drop shadows, where the areas that flattened out for the drop shadow will print "blocky" and a different color than the rest of the background.
Thank You
Thank You
Alith7,
Thank you....your post helped us fix our clicks issue. We have been paying for thousands of black and white clicks as color clicks on our Canon 7000VP. The "color analysts" who came here from Canon multiple times could not solve the issue. These settings in Fiery were the issue.
Thank You
Alith7,
Thank you....your post helped us fix our clicks issue. We have been paying for thousands of black and white clicks as color clicks on our Canon 7000VP. The "color analysts" who came here from Canon multiple times could not solve the issue. These settings in Fiery were the issue.
Last edited:
Alith7
Well-known member
Glad it helped! I've learned techs are like any "specialist", the good ones are VERY few and far between, they ALL think they know everything and are never wrong, and if you do manage to find one of those rare "good ones" you are VERY lucky!
If you find you are printing a lot of mixed color/B&W jobs, there is another trick in a different section, to designate certain pages/sections with different settings, let me know and I'll throw a tutorial up for it.
Alith7
Well-known member
how to print color and B&W jobs together using Fiery Command Workstation to separate sections:
First, send the job over to the Fiery, either just print, or as store. You can set common settings such as duplex, offset, etc. at this time.
Then, once the job is in the RIP, open the production notes and navigate to the Media Tab:
once there you will see towards the bottom a heading for "mixed media".
Click the arrow to the left of it to expand the section and you should see something like this (minus the sections already in it):
at the bottom is a row of buttons with your options for adding a cover, sections, or inserts.
Cont...
First, send the job over to the Fiery, either just print, or as store. You can set common settings such as duplex, offset, etc. at this time.
Then, once the job is in the RIP, open the production notes and navigate to the Media Tab:
once there you will see towards the bottom a heading for "mixed media".
Click the arrow to the left of it to expand the section and you should see something like this (minus the sections already in it):
at the bottom is a row of buttons with your options for adding a cover, sections, or inserts.
Cont...
Alith7
Well-known member
Cont....
Starting with the cover options you will see a window like this:
From here, you can check front or back cover, and then set options for where the cover comes from; size settings; color settings; front, back, or both for sides printed; as well as all your usual options.
**> 2 things to note.
----->1. this is for PRINTED covers only, you use "Insert" for preprinted covers.
----->2. a "back" cover only applies if you're doing a corner stapled book. if you select if for a saddle stitched book, the results could be a bit random, though in theory it "should" put it in as what would end up a center page.
On this window, just checking the appropriate box and hitting ok will apply the cover option.
The next option is the "Page Range" option. When selected you will see a menu like this:
from here, you designate which sections print with which settings. In my example, page 1 & 2 print 1-sided, Greyscale; and 3-11 print 2-sided, CMYK. Yes, I know that's an odd number of pages, but it prints just the same as it would if you sent a 13 page document to print 2-sided: ie. you will get 6 2-sided pages and the last page will print 1-sided, only counting 13 clicks. you could separate it out, but why make more work for yourself?
Here are your color options since this what this tutorial is specifically for:
otherwise, you can customize each section as if it was a totally different job. Pulling different paper from different drawers, thicknesses, etc.
**> 3 things to note.
----->1. if you don't change it, it will select options from the way you sent the full document over. So if you want the WHOLE document to duplex but only certain sections to print color while the rest prints B&W, set duplexing in the normal manner, but for the sections, just change color mode.
----->2. Once you have one sections' settings done, select the "add Definition" button at the bottom to set it. just hitting "Close" will NOT save it
----->3. Once you hit "add Definition" you don't have to close the window to add the next section. just change the page range at the top, change the settings, and hit "add Definition" button again.
Starting with the cover options you will see a window like this:
From here, you can check front or back cover, and then set options for where the cover comes from; size settings; color settings; front, back, or both for sides printed; as well as all your usual options.
**> 2 things to note.
----->1. this is for PRINTED covers only, you use "Insert" for preprinted covers.
----->2. a "back" cover only applies if you're doing a corner stapled book. if you select if for a saddle stitched book, the results could be a bit random, though in theory it "should" put it in as what would end up a center page.
On this window, just checking the appropriate box and hitting ok will apply the cover option.
The next option is the "Page Range" option. When selected you will see a menu like this:
from here, you designate which sections print with which settings. In my example, page 1 & 2 print 1-sided, Greyscale; and 3-11 print 2-sided, CMYK. Yes, I know that's an odd number of pages, but it prints just the same as it would if you sent a 13 page document to print 2-sided: ie. you will get 6 2-sided pages and the last page will print 1-sided, only counting 13 clicks. you could separate it out, but why make more work for yourself?
Here are your color options since this what this tutorial is specifically for:
otherwise, you can customize each section as if it was a totally different job. Pulling different paper from different drawers, thicknesses, etc.
**> 3 things to note.
----->1. if you don't change it, it will select options from the way you sent the full document over. So if you want the WHOLE document to duplex but only certain sections to print color while the rest prints B&W, set duplexing in the normal manner, but for the sections, just change color mode.
----->2. Once you have one sections' settings done, select the "add Definition" button at the bottom to set it. just hitting "Close" will NOT save it
----->3. Once you hit "add Definition" you don't have to close the window to add the next section. just change the page range at the top, change the settings, and hit "add Definition" button again.
Alith7
Well-known member
Cont....
here is a shot showing you how it will show the options selected for each setting:
Lastly, is the "Insert" option, which gives you this window:
You can select "Before" or "after" the designated page; whether it is to insert before the first page, after the last page, or at any point in the middle simply by designating a page #.
**>2 things to note
------>1. as it says at the top, this is for "BLANK" inserts. so a preprinted cover, or a slipsheet, or a preprinted certain page to go in the middle. There are NO options for print settings here because that should be done as a "section" with the "new Page Range" option.
------>2. just like the page range option, you have to hit the "Insert" button to add to the list.
And you're all set.
at the bottom of your properties window, you will see a new diagram that will show you a graphical preview of some of your settings. Like this:
Thank you for reading my little tutorial and let me know if you have any questions.
here is a shot showing you how it will show the options selected for each setting:
Lastly, is the "Insert" option, which gives you this window:
You can select "Before" or "after" the designated page; whether it is to insert before the first page, after the last page, or at any point in the middle simply by designating a page #.
**>2 things to note
------>1. as it says at the top, this is for "BLANK" inserts. so a preprinted cover, or a slipsheet, or a preprinted certain page to go in the middle. There are NO options for print settings here because that should be done as a "section" with the "new Page Range" option.
------>2. just like the page range option, you have to hit the "Insert" button to add to the list.
And you're all set.
at the bottom of your properties window, you will see a new diagram that will show you a graphical preview of some of your settings. Like this:
Thank you for reading my little tutorial and let me know if you have any questions.
Go into the files (on the fiery or from the print driver) Expert Settings and you can change how the fiery will process blacks. Make sure that Black detection is selected as well.
Also if you are converting from a program (say indesign)to a PDF, make sure that your PDF settings are set to Print, rather then Proof.
Also if you are converting from a program (say indesign)to a PDF, make sure that your PDF settings are set to Print, rather then Proof.
maynardsayswhat
Well-known member
Great job Alith7!
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