my own business

[New2theGame]

Hello all,

I am a commercial electrician who is curious about starting my own digital printing business (in my garage of 350 sq ft). I live in the silicon valley and have a few contacts at various companies who are fed up with fedexkinkos and would be interested in giving me some work if I were to start my own place. I stumbled on to this website while researching digital printers. Obviously I am not going to be doing anything as exotic as any of you who do this for living but the work needed to be done doesnt need to be. Mostly its legal, h.r. and marketing stuff that are in binders or folders.

Please no insults or negative comments, if you dont approve or have anything constructive to say please move on. To those of you who admire my bravery/foolishness and have some tribal knowledge please feel free to comment.

Heres what I would like to know right of the bat,

machines= new or used?
lease or purchase?
which brand? (xerox seems to be the 800lb gorilla)

I want machines that are the first entries in commercial printing (not high end office printers). Someone suggested three machines. One color(xerox 700), one b&w (xerox 4110), and one machine that makes spiral and comb style binders [is that what the plastic binders are called?]. These are just a few of my many questions, Im data mining right now and all the info I can gather will help me determine if this venture is worth doing. Im not in any hurry this is just something Im looking into and would like to do if feasible.

Thank you in advance

 

[mpaul32904]

Run screaming from the printing business... run fast, run far.

Well, your mileage may vary, but not by much.

 

[RNRPRINTINGNMAILING]

Great business to be in

Great business to be in

Your working in a nice space.
I would go to each person and get samples of what they need done.
Find out how often they get printed material done.
You will need a Cutter, Folder (folds 11 x 17) B/W copier not to expensive
Paper, NCR Paper Glue Padding press.
Most of these things can be found on ebay or even or Craigs list.
Also a Computer that is pretty up to date. If you need a estimating program there is something called morning flight. its free to down load.
Than I would go to a local printer and see how is operation is running. If you have free time
offer to work there to get a feel for how things go. Also you can check youtube. If you have any question or need help please feel free to call me at 540-948-5864 or email me at [email protected] I also have my business in my basement and I am doing pretty good here is my website RNRPRINTING.NET you can check it out. Good Luck


Rob

 

[Milo Wilson]

4110 is a great mid/high volume B&W machine. Small footprint, lots for the money. I always tell my customers to buy used and/or refurbished. Try to get a low enough meter on the used machine, make sure it has print enablement on it. Any other questions give me a call. 714-292-6912.
FYI ..I would stay away from the X 700...nothing but problems with color eveness across page.

 

[ondemandbindery]

The good the bad, the bad, and the ugly. The good is you have some contacts that are opening up lines of conversation about you maybe having an opportunity on getting some work. That is the most critical part really and if you have a blood line then chances are you may have a valid reason to start a business.

The bad is people tend to say things they don't mean in conversations. If you are thinking about sticking your neck out there on this, put them on the carpet and find out what is on their mind. Just beware of the build and they will come theory. That rarely works out without a strong business plan.

The ugly is you are definitely stepping into an arena going through a fierce change. When you mention Marketing that is typically more critical type work. And don't think you can run over the FedexKinkos of the world. They are a default and can squish your 350sqft. print dream!!

If I had to do it over again, I would have built a relationship with a local shop and farmed the work out in the beginning. It teaches you the industry and would provide you with a ton of safety nets. Printers are grasping for air right now and the margins are pretty rough in today's times. But with a sound business plan and sack to do it, why not? I like the idea of potential clients but I don't like the idea of potential clients beating down big Default Printers as I call them. They have a lot of horsepower and sleep in bed with a ton of local Printers.

Good luck,

 

[X33]

do you have any idea on potential print volumes? color and b&w? weekly/monthly?

 

[New2theGame]

do you have any idea on potential print volumes? color and b&w? weekly/monthly?

I was thinking on a monthly basis of 50k to 100k of volume of color and b/w. Obviously that might be optimistic but id rather have the equipment that could scale the demand should it ramp up.

I love the feedback but does any one have preferences as far as printer mfgs are concerned?

 

[New2theGame]

In regards to fedexkinkos as a threat or a leviathan that cannot be destroyed, it is not my intention to do so however it is no secret that fedex bought kinkos for their store locations and NOT for their print business. Being a tradesman who has completed an apprenticeship I wholly recognize and respect printing as a trade that one can spend a lifetime learning. With what fedex pays its kinko employees and the lack of training its clear fedex does not share my views.

Besides, this is a service business and as such when you take care of clients and build relationships on a first name basis gigantic corporations don't stand a chance on a local level. In business as in life its not what you know but who you know.

 

[jasonic77]

I have everything you need:

I have everything you need:

Everything you need to start a small or home based print operation. I have been doing exclusively letterhead and envelopes but, am getting out of the printing business.
I have:
-2009 Xante Illumina DEP 4 color digital press, runs most envelopes and other paper stock up to 15pt laser-safe board 18.9"Wx47"L. only 35,000 impressions
-replacement fuser, transfer belt, toner cartridges, and imaging drums.
-Color management software, with job preview, cost analysis, file manipulation, and quality control features.
-2010 Perfect 19" electric guillotine paper cutter.
-5000 sheets of 11x17 #60 Husky offset (enough for 10,000 letterhead)
-5,000 Athens #10 envelopes
-1,000 Western Sulphite #10 envelopes

All you need is a computer and a way to generate templates (I use Adobe CS3), and you are set.
I am willing to negotiate price, but please no low-ballers or scammers.
I am listing photos of the Xante and can send you additional photos if you like.

 

[X33]

I was thinking on a monthly basis of 50k to 100k of volume of color and b/w. Obviously that might be optimistic but id rather have the equipment that could scale the demand should it ramp up.

I love the feedback but does any one have preferences as far as printer mfgs are concerned?

I think a Xerox 700 for color and a Xerox 4112 for black & white should be enough for now and allow you some growth.

If you have the credit, I'd lease. Don't put your money down.

If you don't have the credit, then your only option is to purchase cash. In that case, I'd buy a used machine. You can probably find a good Xerox DocuColor 252 somewhere and a Xerox 4112 too.

 

[Milo Wilson]

I recommend buying used equipment. You get a machine for a quarter of what it was for new and you can put it back on service if you need to.

 

[New2theGame]

thank you all

thank you all

Thanks X33,

ive been reading different posts on this webiste (digital printing discussion) and xerox 700 isnt as favored as the 252. As far as the 41xx series it seems to be a favorite in the b/w arena. Milo wilson mentioned getting a used machine with a low meter... is that the printing worlds version of odometer?

Also want to thank all of you who have taken the time to give me your tribal knowledge. The more I learn the more i realize I dont know. The more you have to give is welcome

 

[OkiTech]

Choose your equipment wisely

Choose your equipment wisely

Well, a word from Copier service engineer who turned to be a printer as well...
#1 - please research copier owners in your area - the best machine to buy is the one who's owners are happy with the service. Bare in mind that Xerox brand is usually most expecive to maitain if you don't have a service contract - they have most ripp-off rates out of all. Canon should be a nice machine to have, in 50-60 cpm speed machines drums are rated for over 2 million and there is no developer to change.... I am trying to tell you that it most definatelly will cost you a lot more to run the machine than to buy it so choose wisely. As far as color machine, Xerox is one the best color, Docucolor 252 is machine people really happy with but I would recommend that you have it under contract, they will charge you some $ to bring it up to speed but clicks on those about 10-11 cents with everything included. You can run 11x17 and cut in half, it still cost you 10 cents.
If you would need to make regular stationary, pads etc, please keep in mind that copier isn't always a best choice - have you noticed how paper not laying perfectly flat after printing? If you try to bind in to pads, for example, or fold laser printed material, it looks hmmmmm just ok. I mean out of simple duplicator or offset press, where paper is not being treated with heat you will a lot better looking results at the bindery.
Well, there is alot more - i guess i could write a book on how I figured out offset printing and rapairs of my presses on my own - had a spoiled paper up to my knees on the press floor trying to learn AB Dick 360 (I can imagine a lot of guys laughing reading this)
As was mention before - if you could get in to printing shop to learn the way things done right - it is the best way to do it, you can always do things your way but knowing how to do it right is really important.

 

[OkiTech]

Oh yes, Xerox Docucolor 250 family should cost $ 9-10k in nice condition.
A canon Image runner 6570 with a full boat set-up should be under $3k
I don't ususally don't get involved with docucolor line but we have Xerox WorkCentre 7335 with like 50,000 pages on it with saddle-stitch finisher for well under $3k, I dodn't know if I can offer you anything here but let me know if you wish to discuss your equipment options I believe I canadvice you with what is right and most likely offer you something if you wish. Most importanat find which brand dealer provide best service in your area.

 

[New2theGame]

good to know

good to know

Thanks UnlimitedBT,

that information was very helpful, Im in the silicon valley here in Northern California and I am trying to find out which dealers are out here. Im in total agreement that purchase cost is not as important as operating costs and ultimately that will determine which name brand I choose. My friend who works at fedexkinkos tells me that next year all fedexkinkos stores will switch out their xerox machines with canon machines for the same reasons you mentioned. Cost is king.

What are the costs like for a canon ir6570?

 

[Keith]

Hi New2theGame! I had an ir6000 several years ago when I started my all digital shop. I think it may have been a penny a click. The solids were a little weak but that could have been my specific machine. I'll tell you one thing, still feeling new to digital (my background is offset), don't be afraid of the lesser known machines like Toshiba, Sharp and other "office" level machines. As others have suggested, make sure you have good service in your area. I started my shop with the Xante Ilumina. It was great in the beginning when I had very low volume. I didn't need to worry about making a lease payment or click charges (I purchased it new). It sucked having to buy toner though. The cash output was painful. And without a service contract, routine maintenance gets forgotten.... As for the "office" machines, a good friend of mine has 4 (four) Sharps with over 2 million clicks on each one!

But I'm on the east coast, things might be different here....

 

[New2theGame]

Ketih,

thank you for the reply. Office printers huh... sounds good, you mentioned toshiba and sharp who else would be considered best bang for buck? If you had to do it all over again what would you have done differently?

By this, I mean which machines/mfgs would you have used for color, b/w, and finishing?

What kind of arrangement would you have done, purchase or lease and when you say service do you mean the service you receive when you pay for a service maintenance contract?

I keep hearing or reading you guys talk about clicks... is that a meter that printer mfgs charge you for based on velocity? And what does that penny per click get you?

My apologies for the barrage of questions but as I mentioned earlier, with every questioned answered many more are created to take their place

 

[Keith]

I mentioned Toshiba because you can get it fully loaded for about $30,000 and it was one of the machines featured in an IPA (International Prepress Association, I think) test. It was the lowest priced machine and they pitted it against giants like Kodak, Indigo and Xerox and it held it's own for it's price point. I actually demo'd one at a dealer and unfortunately, it kept jamming. They also couldn't tell me if it could print on coated stock and in the IPA test, they used an uncoated sheet on one machine- the Toshiba. That's unfortunate because I really liked the Toshiba, but I really needed to be able to print on gloss. The Sharps were mentioned because a friend of mine does some serious booklet volume (I'm talking 250,000 clicks in a weekend) for the past several years and he loves them. But I would stay away from Sharp color machines. I sales rep showed me some samples and they were horrible. Things may have changed as that was a year and a half ago. A couple things I would highly recommend-

1. Better Buys for Business- Better Buys for Business: Buyer's Guides for Copiers, Printers, Fax Machines, Scanners and More Can't remember how much they cost, ($55 maybe?) but I found them very valuable in my research.

2. Demos. Once you've narrowed it down to a few machines or so, go to the dealer or sales rep and tell them you want to see it in action!

Best bang for your buck? That depends upon the value you get out of the machine for what you are producing.

What would I have done differently? Paid more attention to my cash flow and done more research on the machines I bought. I didn't research them very well when I first opened 4 years ago but I did a hell of a lot of research when I bought my Xerox last year. So it's not the machines I would go back and change, it's my expectations of them.

When I say service, I am referring to a maintenance contract. When I first opened I also had a Canon CLC1150 and an IR6000. They were rented for $50 a month each, not leased, not purchased. So that was a very affordable option for a start-up. I think the CLC was 15 cents a click and the imagerunner was a penny. Service contracts are nice because you know your costs and when it breaks, your checkbook doesn't take a beating.

A "click" is an impression on a sheet of paper. An 8.5x11 sheet = one click. 11x17 = two clicks. On a lot of the "production" machines, large sheets will equal one click as well.

Hey, I've been printing for over ten years and I still ask questions. In fact, the worst thing you could ever do, is stop asking questions.

 

[New2theGame]

ok keith,

great info, you mentioned renting your first printers for 50$ each and paying .15/.01 cents per click. Is the service contract included in those fees or is that another fee altogether?

 

[Keith]

Service contracts include all the consumables- toner, drums, fuser, belt, etc and parts and labor for any maintenance or repairs. It does not include paper or staples. This is generally how mow most of them are. Be sure to read over any contract carefully.