New Digital Press Suggestion

Digital Insight

Well-known member
Yes, you can put the "clear" anywhere

The PROBLEM is that IF that "area" has any "color / toner" on it you WILL NOT see the clear AT ALL because the Xerox output is so GLOSSY

It will HIDE the clear

It's like putting GLOSS on top of GLOSS. You will NOT see the difference and therefore the CLEAR becomes irrelevant....
 

OUPrint872

Member
We run 140k 12.5x19 inch sheets per month and we ran a Versant 2100 before moving to a Ricoh 7210X. It doesn't seem like with your volume, it would be cost effective to run such expensive machines as the Colorpress or Iridesse. Just my thought.
Being in the High Ed segment, some of the machine costs are not in parody with the private sector, with that said - yes we are usually broke! The 1000i was an excellent deal and our campus is very spoiled by its speed and quality. Inkjet seems to be where the R&D is at, but it is not possible to get into that type of engine now. The Ricoh 9210 with its print rate and paper capabilities seems to be where we need to go. Speed and Quality are closely tied to our success. Our run times need to shorten to be able to compete with outside vendors. Honestly anything we pick in this tier will work, just want the best product for the investment. We have a Varioprint 110 BW press and a Canon C750 press with long sheet feeder, so small stuff is no problem. I am looking to tackle the 100K-150K 6 x 9 postcard offerings we typically have to send out offset press vendors.
 

AP90

Well-known member
Being in the High Ed segment, some of the machine costs are not in parody with the private sector, with that said - yes we are usually broke! The 1000i was an excellent deal and our campus is very spoiled by its speed and quality. Inkjet seems to be where the R&D is at, but it is not possible to get into that type of engine now. The Ricoh 9210 with its print rate and paper capabilities seems to be where we need to go. Speed and Quality are closely tied to our success. Our run times need to shorten to be able to compete with outside vendors. Honestly anything we pick in this tier will work, just want the best product for the investment. We have a Varioprint 110 BW press and a Canon C750 press with long sheet feeder, so small stuff is no problem. I am looking to tackle the 100K-150K 6 x 9 postcard offerings we typically have to send out offset press vendors.
Are you saying you want to move over runs of 100-150K 6x9 postcards, or are you running a monthly total of 100-150k postcards? If its single runs of 100k+, good luck with digital...
 

OUPrint872

Member
Are you saying you want to move over runs of 100-150K 6x9 postcards, or are you running a monthly total of 100-150k postcards? If its single runs of 100k+, good luck with digital...
We top out at about 35K 6 x 9 postcards (17500 clicks) 4 up 13 x 19 4/4. Getting to the 100-150k postcard may be a pipe dream. I would be happy with the 50-75k level. Mainly to do with run time. Price does factor in, but that is about adjusting profit margins and keep supply costs down.
 

Shawnd

Well-known member
Only way to make that work is with variable data on the digitals. Being a college they should be doing variable on pictures and text and offers.
 

Digital Insight

Well-known member
"Digital" is NOT going to be an OPTION for runs of 100k - 150k Postcards.

That is "offset" all day...... everyday....

Digital can not compete "cost wise" in that quantity area.

Offset will eat that alive
 

OUPrint872

Member
You are correct with static product, but variable data is where I am am putting my focus on. Again, I amend my original statement. It is more like the 50-75K runs that I would like to do swiftly.
 

Digital Insight

Well-known member
For "variable" then Digital in the only way to go.

50k-75k run of "anything" is pretty rare.

Biggest jobs we see are usually around 10k-15k range....
 

AP90

Well-known member
For "variable" then Digital in the only way to go.

50k-75k run of "anything" is pretty rare.

Biggest jobs we see are usually around 10k-15k range....
I was going to agree with you on this. A 50-75k variable data run seems huge. Client must have some deep pockets for something like that lol.
 

OUPrint872

Member
Other than giving me insight on how big of jobs I should not run, does anyone have actual machine recommendations. I am very interested in the Ricoh 9210. I would appreciate a users opinion.
 

Digital Insight

Well-known member
That's a pretty shitty response man....

Just trying to tell you the "real" truth about what is REALLY out there in the print world.

If you wanna dream about "75k" flyer orders go on ahead.
 

AP90

Well-known member
Being in the High Ed segment, some of the machine costs are not in parody with the private sector, with that said - yes we are usually broke! The 1000i was an excellent deal and our campus is very spoiled by its speed and quality. Inkjet seems to be where the R&D is at, but it is not possible to get into that type of engine now. The Ricoh 9210 with its print rate and paper capabilities seems to be where we need to go. Speed and Quality are closely tied to our success. Our run times need to shorten to be able to compete with outside vendors. Honestly anything we pick in this tier will work, just want the best product for the investment. We have a Varioprint 110 BW press and a Canon C750 press with long sheet feeder, so small stuff is no problem. I am looking to tackle the 100K-150K 6 x 9 postcard offerings we typically have to send out offset press vendors.
Other than giving me insight on how big of jobs I should not run, does anyone have actual machine recommendations. I am very interested in the Ricoh 9210. I would appreciate a users opinion.
Alright, heres some actual recommendations based on what you have stated.

1. The 1000i is a great machine. We used to have one. It ran like a champ, but when it broke, it was major. Replacing drums were a PIA just because they had to be screwed out and what not. DFE was fast as long as you got the "hyper rip".

2. Don't know much about the Ricoh other than it is just a fast toner based machine like everyone else is offering. Im sure the quality is up to par with everyone else. Like any digital machine, if theres not support nearby, it will be a terrible machine.

3. Inkjet is a big R&D, but price isn't what should be keeping you from the segment. It is quality. You mentioned that you are in the High End segment, and inkjet just isn't there yet.

4. You want turn around times to decrease and therefore need a faster machine, but also want to extend to the 75-100k postcard segment. Its going to take you 10 non-stop hours on the 9210 to output the job, and good luck not having single stoppage during that run. Also, if you do get it ran in 1 day, you just did 50k clicks in 1 day. Expect to get friendly with your technicians and know their favorite coffee and donuts.

5. If your wanting to pump through this type of volume, you should look at a fleet of machines instead of just 1. Say 3-4 V180's, or whatever KM and Ricoh are offering. Or call HP and ask them to show you the price of a Indigo 12000.

6. What we have said the whole time, if your looking at long postcard/flyer runs, it has to be variable data. Otherwise no matter what you won't be able to compete. Im sure you know, but just clicks and paper on 100k postcards printed digitally will be around $4500. GotPrint has the same postcards for $4300. Im sure a trade printer or other plants will destroy GotPrint's pricing. If you can make it work, let us know cause I couldn't come close to doing the job digitally.
 

Shawnd

Well-known member
3. Inkjet is a big R&D, but price isn't what should be keeping you from the segment. It is quality. You mentioned that you are in the High End segment, and inkjet just isn't there yet.
On the inkjet note, what has been coming out of the Canon Oce prostream 1000 is one of the best looking variable data inkjet prints on C2S that I have seen. It would eat these amounts for lunch but none of us can afford it yet.
 

Digital Insight

Well-known member
InkJet does "seem" to be the wave of the future.

But we have been hearing that for about 5 years now.

I'm curious to see when they can become price competitive on the box.

Last pricing I was seeing / hearing was still "around $1 million ish "

That's still crazy high....

We got into our last Digital Press with ALL the options including a Plock for well under $200k
 

JonsonSmith

Member
We run 140k 12.5x19 inch sheets per month and we ran a Versant 2100 before moving to a Ricoh 7210X. It doesn't seem like with your volume, it would be cost-effective to run such expensive machines as the Colorpress or Iridesse. Just my thought.
I agree with your Thought.
 

OUPrint872

Member
I appreciate everyone's comments. I will digest and start building a list. I like the idea of multiple smaller machines. I have floated around with this idea before (2 Canon C750's). What is interesting about this approach is that I can get different output options to strengthen my offerings as well.
 

Shawnd

Well-known member
I would recommend 2, I have 2 7110's and the redundancy and the ability to have both knocking out the same job is great, or just having them running different jobs at the same time. Ricoh will make a sweet deal on 2 units. You will just have to figure out how to power the 2 of them if you only are setup for 1 at moment.
 

Craig

Well-known member
I saw some samples off a Kodak Nexfinity, wow was I impressed. That may be the replacement to our 1000i.
 

So You Want to Invest In Inkjet

I Want to Invest in Inkjet, But…
Over the past few years I’ve watched a group of transactional and direct mail printers strategically shift from monochrome toner machines to full-color toner and inkjet presses. Most banished old black-only toner boxes but kept their color toner devices around because they anticipated needing both color inkjet and toner presses to meet customer needs. They were right then and continue to be right today. Because toner and inkjet can be better together. Read the Post

   
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