Newbie Questions on the Epson Stylus 3880

[Haystack]

I've been happy with the Epson Stylus Pro 3880 that I purchased last December and have enjoyed learning the nuances of fine art printing. However, I've been having a couple recurring issues that I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice with.

First, as I reach the bottom of my first ink set, I'm having to do head cleanings on a pretty regular basis. I understand that this is to be expected if the printer has been left fallow for too long, but often I'll have to clean twice in the course of a ten-print run. Nozzle test patterns show no problems, but the prints themselves start to come out dull until I clean the heads once more. Any suggestions?

Second, I'm having particular difficulty maintaining detail/contrast in shadow areas. For example, a darkened forest backdrop, where the faint outlines of trees are clearly visible onscreen, prints as flat black. By adjusting the levels I can usually recover some of that contrast, but only to a degree. I understand that part of this is the inherent difference between bright LCD pixels and matte-black pigment inks, but the difference is striking enough that I don't feel like I can do justice to art pieces with many dark, low contrast areas. Does anyone have any tips on how I can knock out the shadow areas while still maintaining overall balance? Glossy paper, perhaps?

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Are you using Epson media and the correct printer driver and colour settings for this media? Are you using an Epson ICC profile for the media?

If you are using third party media, does it come with recommended Epson driver settings and or custom ICC profile?

Are you printing out of Photoshop or other software? What OS are you using? Make sure that you are not colour managing the print twice if using Photoshop.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Haystack]

I'm using Epson Velvet and Epson Ultra Premium Matte and genuine inks with the sRGB IEC61996-2.1 profile. I've been having the printer manage colors with the relative colorimetric rendering intent, though I've experimented with having Photoshop do it (so as to enable black point compensation) without any discernible difference. In either case, I make sure the color management setting in the "print" and "page setup" agree. The printer driver is what came on the Epson CD that shipped with the printer; this also comes the paper profiles.

I'm using Photoshop CS3 on Windows 7.

 

[Rodneyver]

It appears that your doing everything right to me. We run into a cleaning im-balance from time to time also. Next month it may be better. I'm guessing that the visual on the screen to print is a 5 to 7 percent loss in visual print compared to the monitor. If your in this area the printer may be at its max capability. I do have a little better luck with the Semi-Gloss for our higher end stuff. Its a very little difference on Semi-Gloss vs the Matte but yes it is a little better.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

You should be able to convert to the printer/media ICC colour profile in Photoshop. Do things look similar?

Stephen Marsh

 

[Haystack]

Ah, they do now! Thanks!

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Ah, they do now! Thanks!

Were you printing with an ICC profile using the driver, or just using the driver colour settings with no ICC profile?

What I meant, does the Photoshop conversion look the same as the print. Did that help? Do you mean that when you convert to the printer profile in Photoshop, the result has more detail and looks better onscreen than the prints do? Have you output the file yet to see how this behaves when ink hits paper (don't colour manage the print, as it is in printer space and does not need further conversion). Also compare perceptual conversion vs. relative colorimetric with black point compensation turned on.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Haystack]

I was indicating the paper type in the driver (which I understood to mean that I was applying an ICC profile for that media) and using an sRGB color space as output; so, it doesn't look like I was using an ICC profile at all. When I converted to the correct Epson paper profile in Photoshop, the output looked exactly the way it did on screen. The colors matched, and the shadow areas had the same contrast as on screen. This is such a major change from what I had before, where the output would often have some color shift and absurdly dark shadows.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I was indicating the paper type in the driver (which I understood to mean that I was applying an ICC profile for that media) and using an sRGB color space as output; so, it doesn't look like I was using an ICC profile at all. When I converted to the correct Epson paper profile in Photoshop, the output looked exactly the way it did on screen. The colors matched, and the shadow areas had the same contrast as on screen. This is such a major change from what I had before, where the output would often have some color shift and absurdly dark shadows.

Thanks for the feedback. I would like to know what happens when ink hits paper!

There are three basic approaches:

1. Print using the driver colour settings for the paper etc, without using an ICC profile.

2. One can print through an ICC profile, one has to have the correct driver colour settings that the profile was built around. This way the image stays in say sRGB or Adobe RGB and then through the printer driver and OS CMS, it is transformed to the correct printer profile.

3. Convert a copy of the image to the printer profile, then print with no colour management using the correct driver colour settings.


Hope this helps,

Stephen Marsh


P.S. We have a boxed, never used Epson 3880 for sale at dealer cost price if anybody in the Australian market is looking for one!

 

[Haystack]

Thanks, I'll continue experimenting with it.

 

[Correct Color]

Haystack,

If you're really serious about getting it right, the first thing you need to do is get a custom profile for your machine printing on the media you use.

In this particular case, the reason you're losing shadow detail is because you're running fairly soft stock, which typically has a lighter maximum black point than your image. If that transition isn't handled correctly, exactly what you're seeing can happen.

And, honestly, the last thing you ever want to do is have the printer manage color. You might chase color around and in the end get an acceptable. But it won't be a perfect result,it's a sure waste of time, materials, and money, and it's very seldom a repeatable result.

So once your machine is profiled, you print to the same printer settings you used to make the profile, otherwise telling the printer to shut up and do as it's told, have Photoshop manage color, and select your printer profile as your destination print space.

And if you're in need of profiles, I'll offer a little plug on this site I built way back when that I've never made any money off of but still make profiles for on the rare occasions when they roll in here.

Printer Profiles Online

Lots of pretty good information on the process there -- if I do say so myself -- and only forty bucks a profile.

Good luck.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

 

[Haystack]

Thanks for the info. I have still been getting erratic results, particularly on the black point issue, even after converting to the profile for the media I'm using (as discussed above). I'm surprised that that should be so, however. It's an Epson profile for an Epson printer running Epson paper. Given that Epson makes such a big deal about how their printers are so-carefully optimized for their media and their media only, I would think that the output would be pretty much on target. On some of these images I'm having to slide the minimum black point over by 20 or more, just to get minimal shadow contrast.

I've read through your site and may try ordering a custom profile after I do more research/testing.