Nextpress 2100/2500

[ian]

Looking for input on the Nextpress S2100 or S2500.


thank you
ian

 

[JRV]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

Ian, I have heard that the Nexpress is a very good machine. Kodak has done a very nice job developing the technology since acquiring it from Heidelberg 4 years ago. Check out the coating capabilities (matte and gloss) and I'll be surprised if you're not really impressed. I saw it at a trade show last year and was blown away.

 

[ian]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

thanks Jack.. I got some samples in today was was blown away by what it can do with the varnish. I am looking for more info on realibility, service issues, any printing or scratching issues

ian

 

[LoneGoose]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

My only gripe about the NexPress is not having a click-charge. I know that the ORC system and all allows you to get your costs down to under a regular click-charge but you need a hell of an operator to accomplish that. Also means that you're never really sure of your cost-per-copy. It takes a lot of effort to work out your costs compared to knowing for sure with a click-charge.

Also, the quality can slip pretty quickly if the operator slacks on maintenance. There's a steep learning curve to undergo operating a NexPress if you want good quality and uptime; otherwise you'll be relying on having the technicians there everyday.

 

[ian]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

I was told they have a new policy now with billing. You pay for the ORC's every month, then they figure out how much it cost to produce the copy per sheet. There is a maximum cap, if you payed more than the maximum cap you would get a credit back for the difference. This ensures your maximum price per click.

ian

 

[buckeye]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

Ian,

"Also, the quality can slip pretty quickly if the operator slacks on maintenance. There's a steep learning curve to undergo operating a NexPress if you want good quality and uptime; otherwise you'll be relying on having the technicians there everyday."

Nicolas is right on the money.

Our company had the 2100 and currently has the 2500. Both have been extremely high maintenance machines. The NexPress technicians have become a pretty common occurrence at our plant for both machines.

I would be hard pressed to recommend the NexPress to anyone as we are currently in the process of looking to replace it with something else.

Erik

 

[ian]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

What kind of maitenance is required on the Nexpress.. it seems every digital equipment that can produce good quality requires very high maintenance.. HP needs more than an hour a day plus the costs of hauling waste oil, on the IGen the devs need to be changed every 70K clicks, every maintenance cycle on that takes 20-45 minutes. Our current digital machines require 2 hours of calibration and maintenance a day, our press requires 1 hour a day.. its a total loss situation in this industry to upkeep quality. We are already expecting 1 hour a day caus we are used to it.
What are the other pitfalls? how is the print quality compared to the Indigo? How does the Nexglosser work?

ian

 

[LoneGoose]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

> What kind of maitenance is required on the Nexpress?

Firstly, keeping it clean. Diagnosing IQ problems and replacing / cleaning ORCs where necessary. There are lots of tips-and-tricks the technicians teach you that aren't covered in the Operator Support System (the manual). Don't ignore the small errors that pop-up - even if they aren't significant enough to stop the printing - they'll escalate into bigger problems.

ORCs need to be treated like new-born babies. They're very expensive; an imaging cylinder, here, costs the equivalent of about $1200. One scratch and you can throw it in the bin. You'll need +five+ every 400'000 A4s or so - that's 'letters' in American. Imaging cylinders are not the only ORCs...

> How does the Nexglosser work?

The NexGlosser will gloss 120 gsm and up, coated paper only. You need to have the fifth unit option on your press to be able to put a coating of clear-DryInk on the prints.

The principle is that prints intended to be glossed are not fully fused on the press. The glosser acts as a second, longer fusing of the toner. The surface against which the toner is fused in the glosser is very smooth, giving the gloss appearance.

 

[ian]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

Does it have the capability to run spot high gloss? I talked to a printer today who at first said he couldn't then retracted his statement and said hes not the operator just the owner and I have to check with kodak on that.


ian

 

[LoneGoose]

Re: Nextpress 2100/2500

No, it can't run spot gloss.

The NexGlosser will 'gloss' up all DryInk on the sheet - not just the clear DryInk. Running sheets through the NexGlosser that are not completely covered in DryInk is possible (we've done it on a few jobs for the 'spot gloss' look) but is unreliable, can cause image artifacts and reaps havoc on the fuser-belt (another ORC; this one is about $1'450 and can last about 100'000 A4s +if+ it's not pitted by dust or dirt through lack of +maintenance+ ).

 

[David S]

I heard nextpress 2500, when printing on uncoated paper we must activate the glosser unit , otherwise the printing result is fragile to be scracth.

 

[JRV]

David, that's not true. Kodak will prove that for you. The NexPress does an excellent job on uncoated stocks.

 

[Whygen]

Have to re-iterate Lonegooses comments - we had a 2100 for 18 months and although the quality is great when new ORC's are in - it looses quality fast and had a tendancy to band. Photographic quality was very good on new ORC's but on commercial work we suffered a lot of banding. You can achieve a low click cost if you run the ORC's past their Recommended life span AND do low coverage work but in reality we never knew what coverage a job was going to be and more and more customers wanted full colour coverage....after 18 months our average click cost was FAR above what "fixed click cost" providers manufacturers currently sell for an A3 s/s click (Kodak based everything on an A4 s/s click) - from a pricing point it was impossible to work out....we did a full coverage cyan job one night and the click was astronomical....
Reliability was very poor on our press but I cant comment on the newer machines (2500 etc)
Also re-iterating previous comments - you have to be extremely careful with the ORC's - one "ding" and it back to the beginning again......

 

[Josh]

Hi,

We're currently looking at the 2100 but would be on a fixed click charge in the same way that Xerox work. This would include all ORCs and engineer call outs etc.

The click being quoted is far, far less than anything we've been offered by Xerox, KM etc. in the past.

Rgds
Josh

 

[prepressguru]

I feel for Whygen and Lonegoose. We are on our second 2100. The first was a first gen 4 colour unit. We switched out for a second 2100 with a fifth unit for clear coating and glossing. The pricing structure does look attractive. But they play down the time it takes to do all the maintenance and to figure out what is wrong when quality suffers. The techs are great but most times their option is to put in a new part(s) to fix a solution. Quality and coverage are completely unpredictable. You may have 2 jobs with similar coverage but one job will run with a streak the other will not. You will find a ORC has worn out in a way it will not print a particular colour at a percentage of screen without streaking. All other percentages are ok. So you are stuck with a part which is ok for every other job but 1. You start to make a collection of used parts which you can swap in or out to salvage the life expectancy.

We feel "digital press" technology is still in its infancy. Hopefully in a few years they figure it out.

 

[X33]

Ian, I think you need to take a look at the new Xerox iGen4 ... since your are concerned about service, maintenance and reliablity, you need to know that the iGen4 has automated processed now that before were manual on the iGen3, like developer change. it's all about maximizing uptime; productivity increases up to 35% more.

whatever you knew about the iGen3 doesn't matter anymore ... ask about the Xerox iGen4

take a look :

Xerox Corporation News Release

Xerox iGen4 Digital Press: Advanced Color for Many Applications

 

[Whygen]

I agree prepress guru....
I mentioned this in another thread - If we bought a brand new Audi or BMW and we had 2 service call outs a week for a protracted period of time - we would probably send the car back but in the digital printing arena we pay over-inflated prices for digital presses and they all seem to be pretty unreliable compared to our expectations......we have become conditioned to the fact that they will break down regularly and live with the service calls etc that go with running a digital press........Hopefully Audi or BMW will launch a digital press

 

[Rob Robinson]

We own an M700, kid brother to the 2500. Maintenance is a HUGE issue - downtime due to maintenance is high and quality is dependent on keeping the machine up to speed. However the upside is it's still a profitable machine and worth the hassle. Digital printing has opened up a whole new way to market for our customers (variable data), we are running almost three times the work we expected when first installing the machine.

 

[margadri]

We feel "digital press" technology is still in its infancy. Hopefully in a few years they figure it out.

Wise words my friend
I wish all sales rep could hear you.
They have to learn to sell it and not promise the miracle of the 21st century
Too much is expected from digital.
People is used to colour copies quality like Xerox 5065 as digital
Great quality, but way too expensive.
Go into the world and spread the word o' prepressguru
Cheers
BTW we have 2 Nexpress 2100 and not very enthusiastic about them (for all the reason already mentioned)

 

[Craig]

It may be in it's infancy but in the last 5 years we have seen drastic improvements in both output quality and speed, but reliability still needs help.

I think that the digital manufactures shot themselves in the foot when they compared them to offset. An offset press will run forever with proper maintenance of course. Try to get a digital machine to run for 10, 15 or 20 years, good luck. They are what they are, don't try to sell them as the end to offset, but a compliment. Offset will never be replaced with digital, it all boils down to the dollar, offset is far cheaper to operate on the long runs.