No-Tox inks custom proof profile and plate curves

[MassPrepressGuy]

Looking for advice when using No-Tox CMYK ink set. Anybody out there make a custom proofing profile and plate curves or forced into doing a full fingerprint? Trying to avoid the cost of a fingerprint. We use ESKO color pilot, curve pilot, and proof on an Epson P9570. Hoping the ink drawdowns are close to our standard ink set. Anybody? Advice would be appreciated! Thanks!!

 

[SteveSuffRIT]

Do you know the Lab values of your current ink set, as well as SID (solid ink density) & TVI (tone value increase).
Curious, if you changed ink vendors with regular inks, would you use the same old ICC profiles and plate curves or would you re-fingerprint?

 

[Magnus]

What does th No-Tox documantation say? Are the ink produced within a certain color standard?

 

[MassPrepressGuy]

Do you know the Lab values of your current ink set, as well as SID (solid ink density) & TVI (tone value increase).
Curious, if you changed ink vendors with regular inks, would you use the same old ICC profiles and plate curves or would you re-fingerprint?

Yes we have all that data, as we completed new fingerprints last year. Our ink supplier has not changed. Our ink supplier received ink samples of the No-Tox inks and is currently making draw downs. We were told that these inks have to run at lower densities than what we typically use for conventional inks. There are still a lot of questions we have with the No-Tox supplier, so the verdict is still out. If it were up to me I would re-fingerprint with this new ink set, but it’s not my dime! The hope is depending on what the LAB are for the No-Tox inks, can we manipulate an existing profile to get somewhat close to matching proof to press. Obviously we’d have to make curve adjustments.

Also, did you have a brother named Joe? If so he was my first boss in this industry. Great guy!

Thanks

 

[MassPrepressGuy]

What does th No-Tox documantation say? Are the ink produced within a certain color standard?

A lot of the docs refer to flexo and not offset. They won’t even give us LAB values!! Only what they say the densities should be.

 

[SteveSuffRIT]

When you run an ink to a lower SID it usually for 2 reasons.
1) It is stronger, has more pigment concentration.
2) It has more dot gain, so you are compensating instead of making a new curve.

 

[Magnus]

When you run an ink to a lower SID it usually for 2 reasons.
1) It is stronger, has more pigment concentration.
2) It has more dot gain, so you are compensating instead of making a new curve.

1) Is this really true?

Lets say that I have a two different black ink types (A and B), where A has a greater pigment concentration then B. If I print a rectangle (100% K) with exactly the same ink film thickness (same amount of ink usage). I assume that A would not only look more black compared to B, but A would also measure a greater density value then B. So If I would like A and B to look the same I would print them at the same density value. But I would consume less of ink type A.

Or am I wrong?

 

[Sullyjj]

My experience with No-Tox inks is that they are very weak. You will have to run a very heavy ink film to acheive proper desity. I do not think these inks comply with ISO-2846-1 for shade. I would suggest making linear plates and do your best to match on press with adjusting density.

 

[SteveSuffRIT]

Magnus, I agree with your statement.
When an ink guy tells a press guy to run to a lower density, that might be interpreted as meaning a thinner ink film thickness (IFT). The ink fountain blade keys or ball/ductor sweep will be less because it's stronger.
Doing a side-side ink draw down (Little Joe, Wedge Plate) to compare strength & color will provide info before going to press.