Please give me your advice before I pursue purchasing used Adobe CS6?

[DuaneBryant]

1) What are the risks/pitfalls in buying "used" Adobe software?

2) How can I minimize or eliminate the risks?

3) Do most persons now on Creative Cloud sell their CS6?

4) Where do I go to find legitimate sellers?

What advice can you give me before I purchase CS6 from someone? Any of these 3 flavors will satisfy our needs: Design Standard, Design & Web Premium, Master Collection. Mac version.

Background:
We are a finishing company that provides a wide array of finishing and display services to printing & graphics companies in the region. We have occasional have a need for Illustrator/InDesign/AcrobatPro/Photoshop. With infrequent need, we can not justify the expense of ongoing Creative Cloud subscriptions. We have been using CS3 since 2007, and while it works fine for our internally-generated needs, we only occasionally receive some files created in a newer version (and most folks save back to an earlier format for us, but the clock is ticking). We just want to have the newest/last buy-it-and-keep-it version, which will probably serve our needs for many more years.

 

[wonderings]

I keep my old licenses just in case. If I decide I no longer want to rent my software from adobe I can always fall back on CS6. No idea where to find legitimate sellers, maybe check with Adobe themselves and see if they are still selling old CS6 licenses. The license is really what you are paying for, the installers are worthless as you can find them online. You will want to make sure that any license you buy is valid and that whoever you buy from has deregistered. Not sure if you can link a new adobe account with an already used license for CS6. You might want to contact Adobe and see what they about this matter.

 

[chevalier]

I'm pretty sure that the EULA states that transfer of a license after it's opened/activated is illegal. It's more or less the same behavior as pirating it. You wouldn't steal water if the water company charged you a minimum 100 gallons per month if you only needed 40 gallons. If it's a business necessity bite the bullet.

 

[Dov Isaacs]

On behalf of Adobe ...

It is perfectly “legal” to transfer your license to Adobe software (either with or without compensation) with the following exceptions:

(1) The software being transferred must not be educational, evaluation, or volume licenses.

(2) You cannot transfer software that you already used as the basis for an upgrade. For example, if you upgraded CS5 to CS6, you are not allowed to transfer your old CS5 software. You may continue to use it on the systems that you upgraded to CS6, but you cannot either use it on other systems or transfer to others.

If you do wish to transfer Adobe software either as the seller or buyer, go to <https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/transfer-product-license.html> for detailed information on the process (including limitations) and the forms necessary to properly record the transfer with Adobe.

Obviously, if you are in the market for “used” Adobe software, you should be aware that given the complexity of that software and the propensity of OS developers, especially Apple, to purposely make new OS versions incompatible with older applications, there is a big risk older versions of Adobe software simply won't fully and properly install and run on OS versions released after the application software in question was released. Even though CS6 is relatively new – a bit over three years old now – it would be very risky to assume that it will probably serve your needs for many more years, unless you keep very old systems and OS versions running and you have customers who continue to use such older software on very old computer systems and OS versions.

In terms of risks:

• Much if not most of the Adobe software posted for sale on venues such as eBay is bogus, often pirated software.

• Even venues such as Amazon are problematic if you buy from one of their marketplace / affiliate vendors who are not Adobe authorized resellers.

• Authorized Adobe Resellers never sell “used” software although occasionally, you may find unused, old versions left in their stock for sale. With the movement to electronic distribution of Adobe software, you are much less likely to find such old version bargains anymore. The Creative Cloud model came out with CS6 and boxes of software, other than Acrobat, simply haven't been shipped by Adobe for quite some time.

• With regards to persons now on Creative Cloud selling their CS6 licenses, if their CS6 (or earlier) licenses were used to get discounted Creative Cloud licenses, those CS6 (or earlier) licenses may not be legally transferred.

• You cannot assume that your old versions of especially InDesign and Illustrator can fully and properly open and process documents created on newer versions of this software. Even if an InDesign CC 2015 document is saved as a .idml file that can be opened in CS6, features of that document may go missing even for print functionality. (One such feature is shaded paragraphs - that would go missing if opened in an old version!)

I do understand your need to be prudent in terms of costs, but quite frankly, your time and that of your staff is worth something. All it takes are three or four “incidents” in a year where a compatibility issue causes a few hours worth of extra work, and you already have lost more that you gained by not running current software on at least one system – something to think about!

Good luck ...

- Dov

 

[David Milisock]

duanebryant, buying used could be an issue if the transfer hasn't been done properly Adobe may not honor the purchase and you'll lose your money. We only take IDML files for ID CC, saved back versions of PS and AI for select clients we force all others into print ready PDF files. The cost of Adobe products has become unsustainable in my business. So few of our clients are unable to provide us with what we need that we can take CC files to someone for support at a lower cost than we'll pay if we buy CC. Maybe this will be the return of the service bureau? BTW what's the difference if you have CS3 or CS6 you still can't work with native CC 2015 files! Save the money.

 

[mwc]

If you think that CS6 will serve your needs, then go for it....(In my shop, this would only work with 20% OR less* of our current customers)

We do ask for X-4 pdfs if possible, but you still get the files that even pitstop can't (easily) hack through...and you need the native file(s) to actually save time prepping the files for our environment.

...We recently were 'forced' to update ONE seat to InDesign CC to satisfy customer file prep in our shop ($20/mo)...we did not 'subscribe' to anything else.
I guess we will subscribe to/rent other programs IF they are needed, but you can do this on a month to month basis with the first month free using the 30-day trial.

<sourgrapes> It's just too bad that Adobe has shunned print providers when they eliminated the AASP program (years ago)...We are not a design shop, we strictly use the tools to fix a supplied customer file for output, rarely needing to leverage even 5% of what these programs can do. </sourgrapes>

*When I state this, I don't mean that our customers NEED anything that these programs have added, say, since CS4...a few bells and whistles, but not much print related...IMHO...

 

[dabob]

duanebryant, buying used could be an issue if the transfer hasn't been done properly Adobe may not honor the purchase and you'll lose your money. We only take IDML files for ID CC, saved back versions of PS and AI for select clients we force all others into print ready PDF files. The cost of Adobe products has become unsustainable in my business. So few of our clients are unable to provide us with what we need that we can take CC files to someone for support at a lower cost than we'll pay if we buy CC. Maybe this will be the return of the service bureau? BTW what's the difference if you have CS3 or CS6 you still can't work with native CC 2015 files! Save the money.

David . . . I find it heartening that you can "force" customers into supplying the files you need, personally we suggest that they do something and we have found that if we "suggest" too strongly they will find another supplier . . . and I note that you appear to be totally profit driven (from your previous posts) if you can't afford a $20.00 monthly expense your margins are a little thin . . . IMHO 1 trip to a "service bureau" a month would cost more than that . . .

and MWC . . I agree with your post . . . most people don't need anymore than 5% of the power that lives in the CC versions . . . but the problem there is there are more than 20 different "markets" out there so they roll a lot of stuff into the apps so they don't have to market 20 x all their apps - talk about a headache . .. which app do I need to do this???? and somehow with all the ways to do things in the apps I find that my customers find 20 different ways to do the same thing . . . some of them find the hardest way to accomplish the task . . . and as to Adobe foregoing the AASP program and the print market in general . . . like Dov has said in past postings it has become a small part of their market - see his posts on Acrobat being developed for the Office/Secretary market which I must agree is a much larger market . . . I am just happy they keep developing for us and I for one am happy paying my 50-60 bucks a month to keeps up with the technology.

Like the saying goes . . . If your not going forward you are going backward

So my 2 cents is keep up with technology or you will be left behind (I have working versions of every app from CS3 to current running just so I can open the customers files in the same app it was created in . . . if its before CS2 we just take our chances with text reflow and proof it very carefully . . .)

 

[DuaneBryant]

Thank you to the responses so far. I appreciate your help. I am nearly always in awe of the collective knowledge and wisdom on these forums. I think I first joined around 1998? Computer To Plate Prepress: CTPP!

Just to keep the wisdom on point, I am not considering the merits of beginning to use Creative Cloud. The entire scope of my question is comparing staying with CS3, or moving to CS6.

We are unusual, in that we do not get files from customers. We only get files from printing companies. We work only for printing companies. So the files we get have already been processed by a prepress professional.

Here are my assumptions for wanting to move from CS3 to CS6. If my assumptions are incorrect, and my concerns unwarranted, I will stay at CS3. I have never used Creative Cloud, so my assumptions may be wrong. And some of my assumptions are about the future: which has not happened yet.:

A) I assume that Creative Cloud has the ability to save back to a previous (lower) version (granted, with the ubiquitous warning that some features are not editable or supported)?? (Ai, ID, Acrobat can preflight to a previous PDF version). Our files are very simple, so I am not concerned that some obscure-to-us function like "shaded paragraphs" may go missing.
B) I assume that if Creative Cloud can currently save back to a previous version, that as time passes, the very earliest version that it can save to, will creep forward. I mean if today, ID can save down to CS3, next year it may only save down to CS4, and maybe the year after that it may only save down to CS6?
C) Another example: I have one old rip that is just a backup, but the newest PDF it will take is a PDF 5 Version 1.4...Will the current Creative Cloud Acrobat preflight/fix back down to that version? Will it next year?
D) I have run into problems like what Dov mentioned, when installing Acrobat Pro 8 on the newest OS. There were update problems that Acrobat had forever, that with some work, one could eventually be successful in getting to Acrobat Pro 8.7.1 or whatever. BUT the update process is just now TOO cumbersome with Acrobat Pro 8 and newest Mac OS. It is just that the OS and update odds are better with CS6, running the newest Acrobat Pro, compared with CS3 running Acrobat Pro 8.
E) Lastly: Would it make ANY DIFFERENCE if I got CS6 for Mac or CS6 for PC? Regarding forward/backward compatibility?

 

[Joe]

Thank you to the responses so far. I appreciate your help. I am nearly always in awe of the collective knowledge and wisdom on these forums. I think I first joined around 1998? Computer To Plate Prepress: CTPP!

Just to keep the wisdom on point, I am not considering the merits of beginning to use Creative Cloud. The entire scope of my question is comparing staying with CS3, or moving to CS6.

We are unusual, in that we do not get files from customers. We only get files from printing companies. We work only for printing companies. So the files we get have already been processed by a prepress professional.

Here are my assumptions for wanting to move from CS3 to CS6. If my assumptions are incorrect, and my concerns unwarranted, I will stay at CS3. I have never used Creative Cloud, so my assumptions may be wrong. And some of my assumptions are about the future: which has not happened yet.:

A) I assume that Creative Cloud has the ability to save back to a previous (lower) version (granted, with the ubiquitous warning that some features are not editable or supported)?? (Ai, ID, Acrobat can preflight to a previous PDF version). Our files are very simple, so I am not concerned that some obscure-to-us function like "shaded paragraphs" may go missing.
B) I assume that if Creative Cloud can currently save back to a previous version, that as time passes, the very earliest version that it can save to, will creep forward. I mean if today, ID can save down to CS3, next year it may only save down to CS4, and maybe the year after that it may only save down to CS6?
C) Another example: I have one old rip that is just a backup, but the newest PDF it will take is a PDF 5 Version 1.4...Will the current Creative Cloud Acrobat preflight/fix back down to that version? Will it next year?
D) I have run into problems like what Dov mentioned, when installing Acrobat Pro 8 on the newest OS. There were update problems that Acrobat had forever, that with some work, one could eventually be successful in getting to Acrobat Pro 8.7.1 or whatever. BUT the update process is just now TOO cumbersome with Acrobat Pro 8 and newest Mac OS. It is just that the OS and update odds are better with CS6, running the newest Acrobat Pro, compared with CS3 running Acrobat Pro 8.
E) Lastly: Would it make ANY DIFFERENCE if I got CS6 for Mac or CS6 for PC? Regarding forward/backward compatibility?

B) I believe Creative Cloud InDesign can now only save IDML files backward compatible to CS4.

D) I think CS6 might only go up to Acrobat 9. Maybe even X. But both of those versions are not "new" as XI and DC are the latest two releases.

If your only options are CS3 and CS6 then CS6 will keep you more compatible than CS3.

 

[MyWildIrishProse]

Although I am now subscribed to Creative Cloud, I keep my CS6 version because it contains most of the good stuff you need in Photoshop, along with ImageReady, a nice little side package that disappeared from the product in the next iteration. I can't speak to the licensing issues, except to observe that while I think it is legal, the process is also full of landmines in terms of sourcing a legitimate license.

 

[David Milisock]

dabob it's not the $20 per month for one it's the principle, (Corel costs me $250 for 3 years before a new cycle) and the other issue is the lousy client base that works that way, they're supposed to be the pros but their files are awful and they whine when you want to charge for the repair. Right now I'm 5 weeks out with installs if things get slow I'll consider taking CC files but it hasn't been that way for three years and I'm getting old enough that retirement seems like a better option than Adobe CC.

 

[dabob]

dabob it's not the $20 per month for one it's the principle, (Corel costs me $250 for 3 years before a new cycle) and the other issue is the lousy client base that works that way, they're supposed to be the pros but their files are awful and they whine when you want to charge for the repair. Right now I'm 5 weeks out with installs if things get slow I'll consider taking CC files but it hasn't been that way for three years and I'm getting old enough that retirement seems like a better option than Adobe CC.

David . . . so it's the principle of the thing . . . well if we didn't take CC files our largest customers would flee like rats from a sinking ship (which is what we would be in that case) I see from some of your posts that most of your work is large format . . . well then it doesn't matter if you have 6 different spot color reds, 10 spot color greens and 15 spot color blues . . . not too many of us lithographers have a 31 color press and none of our customers would pay for a 31 color job . . . adobe makes it so that you can remap them into 3 spot color channels (when the intent is for a 3 color job) in the daze of yore you would have to open and edit all the files and or names to get them on the same plate - hours of work - now its about 30 seconds . . . . Thanks Adobe . . that and so many more goodies are built into the Creative Suite apps . . . and I'm not sure but I would bet that there are more lithographers out there than large/grand format shops . . . just saying . . .apparently apps are very industry specific and what works for yours may not work for everybody . . . just my 2 cents

 

[WI-Flexo]

1) What are the risks/pitfalls in buying "used" Adobe software?

2) How can I minimize or eliminate the risks?

3) Do most persons now on Creative Cloud sell their CS6?

4) Where do I go to find legitimate sellers?

What advice can you give me before I purchase CS6 from someone? Any of these 3 flavors will satisfy our needs: Design Standard, Design & Web Premium, Master Collection. Mac version.

Background:
We are a finishing company that provides a wide array of finishing and display services to printing & graphics companies in the region. We have occasional have a need for Illustrator/InDesign/AcrobatPro/Photoshop. With infrequent need, we can not justify the expense of ongoing Creative Cloud subscriptions. We have been using CS3 since 2007, and while it works fine for our internally-generated needs, we only occasionally receive some files created in a newer version (and most folks save back to an earlier format for us, but the clock is ticking). We just want to have the newest/last buy-it-and-keep-it version, which will probably serve our needs for many more years.

Highly recommend you investigate Affinity if cost is a major hurdle. It can do "most" of what the CC apps can do at a FRACTION of the cost. https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/

 

[dabob]

WI-Flexo . . affinity is cool stuff but they don't have a page layout program yet that I can see . . . and I'm thinking that Duane is mostly looking for an InDesign type of program . . .

 

[wonderings]

Highly recommend you investigate Affinity if cost is a major hurdle. It can do "most" of what the CC apps can do at a FRACTION of the cost. https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/

Their software is nice, but if you need to work with pantone you are out of luck. You can important pantone libraries ease enough in Affinity Designer, but no file you save will keep the pantone colours, everything gets converted to CMYK. Affinity is not ready for pro level use when you need spot and pantone colours. Close, but not there yet.

 

[WI-Flexo]

Their software is nice, but if you need to work with pantone you are out of luck. You can important pantone libraries ease enough in Affinity Designer, but no file you save will keep the pantone colours, everything gets converted to CMYK. Affinity is not ready for pro level use when you need spot and pantone colours. Close, but not there yet.

100% true!!!!! Pretty big hurdle! And there are some other small issues I have with the software, but I do believe they will have it sorted still by the end of this year. I know you have heard what they have to say wonderings as I have seen your username on the Affinity forums and they are not saying specifically when, but hey at least there is support there. I gave up on Adobe support years ago. The main reason I bring up Affinity as an option is the cost. Designer costs $50. Thats less for an outright purchase than I pay for just one of my CC seats PER MONTH!! Affinity will probably never be my go to as I have spent the last 20 years with Illy, Photoshop and Indesign but for anyone starting out or simply cannot afford the cost or headache of Adobe I do recommend it.

 

[David Milisock]

dabob 25 years ago there were 165 print shops in the yellow pages in my area now under a dozen and a few of them are not in the area. Large format devices are everywhere, in house for many companies and there are over 40 companies producing large format within a 10 mile radius. We have many of the same issues you have, in fact as a print manufacturer for 40 years I can tell you that print is easy compared to signs and grand format. Images printing on 100 different substrates used in interior, exterior, tropic, desert or artic conditions. Ad to these problems the issues of dealing with 32 bit system limitations, format size limitations and scheduling when opening a file can take 10 or 15 minutes. Plus missing fonts, missing links, the same pot color used in 2 or 3 different palettes. Believe me there are days when I wish I was back on the press again, running a 40" Heidelberg is easy.