Prepress Tips for Designers
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Al Ferrari
Well-known member
You need to look in the produce section!
DontKnowJack
New member
One of the other forums or sub-reddits I frequent has a thread that's linked to this one. I spent the better part of an afternoon a couple of weeks ago reading through a lot of the posts on this thread. There was a lot of helpful info, but I did wish that more of you had given more specific info or even a link to what it is that you actually want from us designers. I 'get' the need to vent... just that there were a lot of great points made and I think it would have been really helpful to have learned more. See, I actually very much want to produce files that are properly formatted AND well-designed. So if you're experiencing common problems with designers, it's possible that we are somehow missing this info and would benefit from your instruction.
The hard thing is that pretty much every print company I work with wants something different. There's a broad spectrum of what's considered "standard" in my experience. For those of you who feel like something should be a given, please keep this in mind. The only thing that's a given is that designers and printers should work with one another in a professional and respectful manner because we are typically both working toward the same goal - a solid product for the end client. It's pretty crappy if most designers have a bad attitude when it comes to working with printers. The same is true for printers who have a bad attitude about designers.
Anyway, I joined this forum to respond to this thread. I wanted to thank those of you who took the time to explain what it is that you need from designers. I already do a lot of these things, but some of them were new to me. I will continue to work closely with printers and ask them specifically what they need for each project, but it is definitely important to have a solid foundation overall. I love print design and have serious respect for the complex process that takes my creations and brings them to life. Thanks to all of you who have dedicated your time and energy to the print industry. I hope your future experiences with designers are better than your previous ones.
The hard thing is that pretty much every print company I work with wants something different. There's a broad spectrum of what's considered "standard" in my experience. For those of you who feel like something should be a given, please keep this in mind. The only thing that's a given is that designers and printers should work with one another in a professional and respectful manner because we are typically both working toward the same goal - a solid product for the end client. It's pretty crappy if most designers have a bad attitude when it comes to working with printers. The same is true for printers who have a bad attitude about designers.
Anyway, I joined this forum to respond to this thread. I wanted to thank those of you who took the time to explain what it is that you need from designers. I already do a lot of these things, but some of them were new to me. I will continue to work closely with printers and ask them specifically what they need for each project, but it is definitely important to have a solid foundation overall. I love print design and have serious respect for the complex process that takes my creations and brings them to life. Thanks to all of you who have dedicated your time and energy to the print industry. I hope your future experiences with designers are better than your previous ones.
DKJ
It's always great to hear from Designers who care what printers face. There have been so many instances we tried to reach out to Designers and make suggestions but usually this is not well received. When the print job then fails to meet their expectations the printer is always to blame. Wish you the best!
It's always great to hear from Designers who care what printers face. There have been so many instances we tried to reach out to Designers and make suggestions but usually this is not well received. When the print job then fails to meet their expectations the printer is always to blame. Wish you the best!
Schnitzel
Well-known member
I have a personal theory (which I apply to myself therefore it is 100% correct. 
), that says you cannot be both highly creative, and have good technical skills at the same time. In other words, you can't design very creative graphics and also create the job in an accurate and technical minded way. I believe they are mutually exclusive. This is opposed to pre-press people, which need to be very technical but don't need to be very creative. That's the reason for the "clash" between the two, and I think you can read that between the lines in this thread.
Again, I had this theory from personal experience and the 10 years I've been working with graphic designers. Obviously I know there are exceptions, but as a general rule I think it's correct.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, that designers and printers must work together in a respectful manner - that's the basis of cooperation.
This thread will probably stay as a rant. I don't think any graphic designer will learn better technical skills from it (you might be the exception!). Many people don't like to change the way they work - "that's how we do things here" is a phrase I've heard too often.
Good luck to you!
), that says you cannot be both highly creative, and have good technical skills at the same time. In other words, you can't design very creative graphics and also create the job in an accurate and technical minded way. I believe they are mutually exclusive. This is opposed to pre-press people, which need to be very technical but don't need to be very creative. That's the reason for the "clash" between the two, and I think you can read that between the lines in this thread.Again, I had this theory from personal experience and the 10 years I've been working with graphic designers. Obviously I know there are exceptions, but as a general rule I think it's correct.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, that designers and printers must work together in a respectful manner - that's the basis of cooperation.
This thread will probably stay as a rant. I don't think any graphic designer will learn better technical skills from it (you might be the exception!). Many people don't like to change the way they work - "that's how we do things here" is a phrase I've heard too often.
Good luck to you!
prepressdork
Well-known member
DontKnowJack, you are a Prince! I wish ALL designers were like this meaning they reach out to the printer to find out what is needed.
J3_PrintWarrior
Well-known member
-DKJ-
It's always good to hear there are Designers that are open-minded. I've worked with Printing company's that would hire a Designer and those Designers would be quite surprised on what we went through on our end. I am currently working with a Designer that we used to sub-contract to. She doesn't have a real positive opinion of Designers. But she also has her own horror stories of clients supplying her crappy information when designing their jobs. Some of which I am sure that has been passed on to the printer because it was the only thing available.
Our venting comes from repetitiveness of the same offenses from the same selected (few/many) Designers over and over, job after job. Some don't understand and some just don't want to hear about it. Sometimes it's a lack of training, or a I don't want to deal with it attitude, other times it's a I'm never wrong complex. It can be very frustrating at times. I know I can relate to every tip that's been stated here. I've probably dealt with every tips explained with this thread over the duration of my career within the Printing Industry.
With that being said, I think there are many of us within the Printing Industry that can say there are also many Designers that do a great job when it comes to supplying us the necessary information to complete a job. We do deal with some knowledgeable Designers that also make our job easier.
It's always good to hear there are Designers that are open-minded. I've worked with Printing company's that would hire a Designer and those Designers would be quite surprised on what we went through on our end. I am currently working with a Designer that we used to sub-contract to. She doesn't have a real positive opinion of Designers. But she also has her own horror stories of clients supplying her crappy information when designing their jobs. Some of which I am sure that has been passed on to the printer because it was the only thing available.
Our venting comes from repetitiveness of the same offenses from the same selected (few/many) Designers over and over, job after job. Some don't understand and some just don't want to hear about it. Sometimes it's a lack of training, or a I don't want to deal with it attitude, other times it's a I'm never wrong complex. It can be very frustrating at times. I know I can relate to every tip that's been stated here. I've probably dealt with every tips explained with this thread over the duration of my career within the Printing Industry.
With that being said, I think there are many of us within the Printing Industry that can say there are also many Designers that do a great job when it comes to supplying us the necessary information to complete a job. We do deal with some knowledgeable Designers that also make our job easier.
DKJ, I think you've got the main point, which is work with the printer. That solves a lot of problems right there.
Most of our rants come from seeing the same problems from the same people over and over. Their refusal to change is what gets our goats. We all are willing to help and give pointers, but if "it looks good on my screen and I went to school for this, and I don't see any need to change, it's your problem" is what we get, we get frustrated.
You've got the good attitude, so you've got it licked.
Most of our rants come from seeing the same problems from the same people over and over. Their refusal to change is what gets our goats. We all are willing to help and give pointers, but if "it looks good on my screen and I went to school for this, and I don't see any need to change, it's your problem" is what we get, we get frustrated.
You've got the good attitude, so you've got it licked.
pnamajck
Well-known member
really enjoyed the collaborative effort dealing with tips 'n rants … i can definitely empathize with majority of concerns in this post … veritably, come across many similar issues on routine basis.
my own tip …
cutbacks … throughout these 170 some replies, cutbacks were never mentioned. for those planning/designing the pages … some binderies still insist on nominal cutbacks for the first/last pages of smyth/perfect-bound books … as well as certain other pages (i.e. gate-folds, tip-ins, etc). this cutback is necessary for glue adhesion between book contents 'n endsheet/cover.
while some cutbacks are simple or even inconsequential … other cutbacks involve varnish or dps-elements. in lieu of such elements … these should be moved instead of covered up with white space.
as a simple precursor … and this illustration is for the designer's benefit … if a woman's navel was situated in the gutter … and this cutback simply covered up instead of "moved" … that navel woulds' disappeared long before the volume landed on the bookshelf.
as for the industry …
i see ignorance 'n arrogance across the plateau … from customers thru designers … pre-press 'n mgmnt … on down the line to pressmen 'n bindery. to subscribe unto the notion that most designers think themselves as being "all that" asserts nonsensical fallacy … seen many of we pre-pressers with the same stoic 'n impudent attitudes. it could be alleged … i become more stressed out with software/vendors and the apparent insidious games they play.
yes … pre-press, 30+ years ago, heralded/warranted a certain "art" and sense of pride … veritably, not dissimilar unto today's tactile concerns/processes. we are, as others in this thread have asserted, button-pushers. the gravity of the situation being that customer 'n management both realize, too little, the complexities that arise. with every new day, new dilemnas are manifested … emanating from new software as well as employees' knowledge 'n adaptability.
imho … in practice, no such thing as "give the customer what they give us". if that was the case … we'd have gone outta' business decades ago. what i'd rather supplant this with is offering each customer options. produce for them an output-proof of what they submit … issue, alternatively, a secondary proof of what we can offer - with a heady surcharge for our extra work.
an example to offer …
taking this into account … here's an example of one such atrocity. one job, worked recently, involved complete scan-process. tore the book apart at the binding … digitally scanned each page for line-copy as well as four-color images. two-dozen pages incorporated common division pages … complete with background gradient as well as a common avatar image in center. additionally, titles 'n subtitles were also evident on each.
simply scanning these elements produced, imho, hideous output … akin to what a "chop-shop" would render. by searching font-foundries and, therein, typesetting the text … along with applying custom gradient bkgds … we could offer customer a second, albeit much more professional, output. they pay extra … we offer extra.
in closing …
it is not my intent to step on anyone's toes … this has only been my 20+ year perception … as a whole.
legend:
dps = douple-page-spread
imho = in my honest opinion
my own tip …
cutbacks … throughout these 170 some replies, cutbacks were never mentioned. for those planning/designing the pages … some binderies still insist on nominal cutbacks for the first/last pages of smyth/perfect-bound books … as well as certain other pages (i.e. gate-folds, tip-ins, etc). this cutback is necessary for glue adhesion between book contents 'n endsheet/cover.
while some cutbacks are simple or even inconsequential … other cutbacks involve varnish or dps-elements. in lieu of such elements … these should be moved instead of covered up with white space.
as a simple precursor … and this illustration is for the designer's benefit … if a woman's navel was situated in the gutter … and this cutback simply covered up instead of "moved" … that navel woulds' disappeared long before the volume landed on the bookshelf.
as for the industry …
i see ignorance 'n arrogance across the plateau … from customers thru designers … pre-press 'n mgmnt … on down the line to pressmen 'n bindery. to subscribe unto the notion that most designers think themselves as being "all that" asserts nonsensical fallacy … seen many of we pre-pressers with the same stoic 'n impudent attitudes. it could be alleged … i become more stressed out with software/vendors and the apparent insidious games they play.
yes … pre-press, 30+ years ago, heralded/warranted a certain "art" and sense of pride … veritably, not dissimilar unto today's tactile concerns/processes. we are, as others in this thread have asserted, button-pushers. the gravity of the situation being that customer 'n management both realize, too little, the complexities that arise. with every new day, new dilemnas are manifested … emanating from new software as well as employees' knowledge 'n adaptability.
imho … in practice, no such thing as "give the customer what they give us". if that was the case … we'd have gone outta' business decades ago. what i'd rather supplant this with is offering each customer options. produce for them an output-proof of what they submit … issue, alternatively, a secondary proof of what we can offer - with a heady surcharge for our extra work.
an example to offer …
taking this into account … here's an example of one such atrocity. one job, worked recently, involved complete scan-process. tore the book apart at the binding … digitally scanned each page for line-copy as well as four-color images. two-dozen pages incorporated common division pages … complete with background gradient as well as a common avatar image in center. additionally, titles 'n subtitles were also evident on each.
simply scanning these elements produced, imho, hideous output … akin to what a "chop-shop" would render. by searching font-foundries and, therein, typesetting the text … along with applying custom gradient bkgds … we could offer customer a second, albeit much more professional, output. they pay extra … we offer extra.
in closing …
it is not my intent to step on anyone's toes … this has only been my 20+ year perception … as a whole.
legend:
dps = douple-page-spread
imho = in my honest opinion
Last edited:
johntheventer
Active member
I have a personal theory (which I apply to myself therefore it is 100% correct.
Again, I had this theory from personal experience and the 10 years I've been working with graphic designers. Obviously I know there are exceptions, but as a general rule I think it's correct.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, that designers and printers must work together in a respectful manner - that's the basis of cooperation.
This thread will probably stay as a rant. I don't think any graphic designer will learn better technical skills from it (you might be the exception!). Many people don't like to change the way they work - "that's how we do things here" is a phrase I've heard too often.
Good luck to you!
As a designer (primarily) I totally agree with the above post - except that you there is no excuse not to find out… I have found the client doesn't care about squat except "How much am I paying" and "Was it done right, on time?"… if I am a designer who makes first contact with a client - and stuff goes wrong, its my fault even if the printer stuffed up - Im the one the client deals with not the printer - I think designers hide behind printer errors and do not realize the responsibility they carry from consultation, through design through print and delivery - and too may of them are too lazy to find out, and it makes it hard for us decent ones (in my humble opinion) to find work etc.
I have always found prepress guys and gals only way to happy to share knowledge and advice - and my clients really benefit from it - hence so do I.
Another reason to do this - in South Africa at any rate - is that many printers now have often times real good designers working for them and offer design as a service - thereby overcoming many of these issues and consolidating that cost…
johntheventer
Active member
Ha Ha - just about every young designer fresh out of design school / college or even ones that have been working a few years design their stuff in Photoshop - I cannot fathom it but yip… i hardly ever use Photoshop - and I am a graphic designer - they almost start crying when, like you, I say "Stop That".
johntheventer
Active member
And - here's my favorite - we do a lot of large format printing - and of course most design students and other business professionals have designed their stuff in photoshop - but because they want the highest quality print possible the save their 36inch wide poster as a 300dpi CMYK file - which on a disk turns out to be about 180meg but when opened and uncompressed it's spooling over a gig!! and of course they need it now cos they are on their way to class!!
Now that Adobe has that Creative Cow Photoshop special, you'll probably be seeing more and more of this. And for the really money conscious, how about Gimp. I'm getting more files made from that. Oh joy.
The thing is: professionals can do good work in almost any program, including MS Office and Gimp. But then professionals know to use the right tool for the job and will use that instead of a poor substitute.
And because of that you only see "dumb" things done using the wrong tools.
"A fool with a tool is still a fool."
J3_PrintWarrior
Well-known member
Sounds like the equivalent of Home-Improvement guy using a hammer and duct tape for his home repairs...........greaaaat
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