Pressmen and DMAXX

[curiosity]

20.
And no, this was a visual assessment by many here at the company. Some eyes more trained than others.
I could "see" some benefits in the FM screening that others did not. I lean toward believing that my observations are not globally recognized. IOW, most print buyers probably don't take the time or care to overanalyze color the way I do. They either like it or they don't.
That said, test 2's results were easy to see. The other 3, not so.

 

[turbotom1052]

20.
And no, this was a visual assessment by many here at the company. Some eyes more trained than others.
I could "see" some benefits in the FM screening that others did not. I lean toward believing that my observations are not globally recognized. IOW, most print buyers probably don't take the time or care to overanalyze color the way I do. They either like it or they don't.
That said, test 2's results were easy to see. The other 3, not so.

when assessing the FM screening, and the images run up to max densities were you judging them based on their visual appeal only, or did you look to see how well you could match a proof? My guess would be that much more testing and fingerprinting would be needed to dial in your printed images to proofs, unless of course your just shooting for hang um and bang um, pleasing color images. Ive found that a lot of commitment is required to bring quality, repeatable images with FM screening and an equal amount of commitment to get the entire process repeatable running at DMAX. I think best results would happen if your commitment to FM and Dmaxx wasn't just the occasional job, but a significant shift in your biznez model so you can specialize in that market. Should you choose to go that route be prepared for a decent learning curve. Id say that it would be of equal importance to have employees on both the prepress end, and in the pressroom with the commitment and experience to succeed. The pressman you shared about before, that you feared was holding back could turn out to be a major obstacle when jumping into such a learning curve.

 

[curiosity]

All four tests were of the same multiple images and targets arranged identically.
Each test involved three phases.
Linear (actually, no curves) plates with targets to create curves.
Then Curved plates with targets to create profiles.
Then profiled plates with said images and targets for comparison.
This approach made it easy to run phase 3 of all 4 tests targeting aforementioned SIDs, resulting in relatively good matches.

 

[cementary]

You know, with Colorflow we've done that too long time ago. We were pleased also. But then we've found out that we cannot maintain same good result with staccato day after day due to:
Trouble with air temperature
Poor ink
Poor blankets
Poor rollers, especially water rollers
etc.
The biggest problem however is backside printing - powder it is.
Test trials were good and very good. Everyday production failed us on yellow road to FM printing

 

[gordo]

You know, with Colorflow we've done that too long time ago. We were pleased also. But then we've found out that we cannot maintain same good result with staccato day after day due to:
Trouble with air temperature
Poor ink
Poor blankets
Poor rollers, especially water rollers
etc.
The biggest problem however is backside printing - powder it is.
Test trials were good and very good. Everyday production failed us on yellow road to FM printing

Fascinating. I set up our local daily newspaper to print FM about 4 years ago. Coldset web, no temerature control, violet ctp, no real process control... and they di it successfully 6 days a week year long.

 

[cementary]

Fascinating. I set up our local daily newspaper to print FM about 4 years ago. Coldset web, no temerature control, violet ctp, no real process control... and they di it successfully 6 days a week year long.

That is funny, because on our coldset presses we've succsesfully printed Staccato 36, but our customers didn't like it. But we did it successfully.
I'll try to quote our customer's response:
We: You know last month we've been printing all your books with Staccato. How do you like images quality and consistensy?
Customer: Oh, yeah, we've noticed some changes. You know, it looks good but we don't want it.
We: But why?
Customer: Just do not want. Please let's return to 100 lpi
We: You've said you liked images
Customers: Yep, but we don't want that

 

[gordo]

That is funny, because on our coldset presses we've succsesfully printed Staccato 36, but our customers didn't like it. But we did it successfully.
I'll try to quote our customer's response:
We: You know last month we've been printing all your books with Staccato. How do you like images quality and consistensy?
Customer: Oh, yeah, we've noticed some changes. You know, it looks good but we don't want it.
We: But why?
Customer: Just do not want. Please let's return to 100 lpi
We: You've said you liked images
Customers: Yep, but we don't want that

I guess advertisers in Canaduh are more sophisticated ;-)
This wasn't with Staccato it was Auraia DMS from Hamillroad. It's more like 20 micron than 36.
Ad sales did explain the change and its benefits to the key advertisers during implementation.
The switch to Auraia saved a major account whose flier/insert was going to move to a different publisher. It also resulted in a 98% drop in charge-backs (charge-backs are when an advertiser won't pay for their ad placement due to quality issues).

 

[cementary]

I guess advertisers in Canaduh are more sophisticated ;-)
This wasn't with Staccato it was Auraia DMS from Hamillroad. It's more like 20 micron than 36.
Ad sales did explain the change and its benefits to the key advertisers during implementation.
The switch to Auraia saved a major account whose flier/insert was going to move to a different publisher. It also resulted in a 98% drop in charge-backs (charge-backs are when an advertiser won't pay for their ad placement due to quality issues).

We've tried Auraia also. You should remember - i've contacted you about it. And I have to tell you - it is better than staccato.
It has been a very long testing period. And maybe we're just unlucky, or their new product (Belissima) was top priority, or British just don't like Russians - I don't know.
To the point - it was a very long testing period and mostly we've been doing nothing, waiting for the hamillroad's answer to our emails. Especially after we've sent them printed sheets "for evaluation and creation a special auraia screenset for our company".
Andy is very nice person, great expert and it was a pleasure for me to communicate with him. But month and a half of not answering ANY emails in the middle of the test trials is beyond my and my bosses understanding. Do you know how it is hard to establish a schedule for printing trials for moderate time period at the company, which works 24/7? How hard to explain to the company management that "yeah, they will answer shortly i can assure you". Espesially considering that i am prepress guy, not manager. And after Hamillroad finally showed up and started to answer us they did it again - just stopped answering after some time. At the beginning of a new test trials schedule.
I was left with promises and it's been about couple of months since the last Andy's email.

So, yeah, Auraia is very good. But the support from the Hamillroad company is a complete disaster. Now I have to deal with my new reputation of "aha, that's the guy who fokked up two extended test trials schedules, promised us lot's of improvements and throw some companies money into the trash".
The rant is over.

 

[gordo]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ll see what I can do about it.

 

[cementary]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ll see what I can do about it.

Thank you but there is nothing to be done with that I'm afraid

 

[gordo]

Thank you but there is nothing to be done with that I'm afraid

There is. Hamillroad needs to hear this so that they have the opportunity to correct whatever it was that caused the failure in their responsiveness.

 

[cementary]

There is. Hamillroad needs to hear this so that they have the opportunity to correct whatever it was that caused the failure in their responsiveness.

Aye, didn't understand that you meant "there is for hamillroad".

 

[gordo]

Aye, didn't understand that you meant "there is for hamillroad".

Yes, for Hamillroad, sorry I wasn’t clear.

 

[turbotom1052]

That is funny, because on our coldset presses we've succsesfully printed Staccato 36, but our customers didn't like it. But we did it successfully.
I'll try to quote our customer's response:
We: You know last month we've been printing all your books with Staccato. How do you like images quality and consistensy?
Customer: Oh, yeah, we've noticed some changes. You know, it looks good but we don't want it.
We: But why?
Customer: Just do not want. Please let's return to 100 lpi
We: You've said you liked images
Customers: Yep, but we don't want that

one of the problems that ive witnessed when it comes to the introduction of something new and different, is that often agencies are looking to keep the process the same over many different publications.

 

[gordo]

one of the problems that ive witnessed when it comes to the introduction of something new and different, is that often agencies are looking to keep the process the same over many different publications.

Good luck with that. When I was at creo we supplied, on request, files for customers to use in their marketing efforts. The majority - sheetfed - printed that four panel folder using 175 lpi AM. The resulting color was all over the place. And these were “high end” printers. With newspaper you’d be lucky that the night shift color looked remotely like the day shift.
There’s the dream and then there’s the reality.