Print coverage for pricing jobs - average?

[tyhoppy]

We're using a digital printer for short-run jobs and I have created a job calculator, but not sure what coverage % for C,M,Y,K to use as an average for jobs to quote customers when I don't see the artwork before hand.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what you've used as an average?

 

[AP90]

Are you not on a click charge? I'm guessing not or else you could just use your click price. Coverage doesn't matter with clicks. A dot or a flooded sheet cost the same.

If if your not on a click charge I would probably base it off of what you would pay if you were on one. B&W- .01 or so and Color .04-.05. Should give you a good starting point

 

[tyhoppy]

You're right, we're not on a click charge. We use off-lease equipment. So, what do click charges cover, and how do you calculate them? Is a one-sided 8.5 x 11 page the same as a two-sided 11x17?

 

[arossetti]

Grab 10 images of previous jobs you have done and average them. Might want two different categories; one for imagery/marketing material the other for manuals/text.

 

[tyhoppy]

Great idea. I thought about that, but ask for other's input because most of what we have done so far consists of more text/icon based material like raffle tickets, event posters/handouts with schedules, restaurant menus/rack cards, and business forms. I don't want to underestimate our costs as we get more graphical products.

 

[afilsonCSA]

There are tools in the industry that can help you. For example, here at Canon we have a tool called "ink Control" for certain inkjet printers, that can tell you how much ink will be used on a job by job basis, or even to a side of the sheet level. This is a process to use when running the job for actual usage. However, Canon also has a tool called "TrueProof" which can be setup to calculate the ink usage ahead of time. In essence you run the file to a virtual digital inkjet printer and it gives you back an ink usage report.If as was suggested above you run 10 jobs to it, you could average the usage for a baseline. If you had access to the files, you could of course get an accurate number for that specific job.

CIP data can also be analyzed if you have the ability to create that in your front end systems. This requires access to a file though, or you again need to average 10 jobs as mentioned above.

Be careful though, not all ink estimation tools are alike. Some use TAC, and other things to estimate usage. The tools I reference above for inkjet use actual dot information derived directly from the inkjet heads themselves. Some toner based systems also have an estimation ability, but in those cases it is a bit harder to calculate, due to ware on consumable parts and the like. As parts ware the amount of toner you will use, will fluctuate to some degree.

 

[BobRym]

A real problem - we run a Riso ComColor InkJet and a Ricoh Pro 651ex for colour work - we are not on a click charge on the ComColor and are on a click charge for the Ricoh (different quality of colour output on the two but some jobs would be acceptable at a lower cost to the customer on the ComColor). However - from our point of view - the ink coverage has to be extremely low to justify taking the risk of exceeding the click charge cost by using more ink than we estimated. We run way less work on the ComColor than we should as we are overly cautious and do not want to get caught on the wrong side of this calculation. The only way to accurately account for ink or toner use is on a very long run or over an extended period of time (we do a calculation once a year and average the ink cost over hundreds of thousands of prints to give us an idea where we are at). The problem with any of the theoretical tools is that how do you know they are accurate or will reflect what your equipment is doing? You should be safe using a standard click charge as a "cost" as long as you are not overpaying for your supplies and repair parts. Equipment dealers will put a high volume machine out on a pre-determined click charge and they need to be making a profit on these contracts (which will include supplies, repair parts and a technician's costs). I would check to see as best you can what the click charge is in your area on high volume machines and then use that as your "cost" - should still be competitive and able to make a profit.

 

[Keith]

Years ago when I owned my equipment and did not have a service contract, I would look back a year and add up what I spent in consumables and divide it by the meter count for that same given time frame. It only gives you an average and it would go well with all the other recommendations so far. My point is that you shouldn't rely on a single method to calculate your cost/price.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

afilsonCSA, thank you for your post. If I was to provide say half a dozen single page PDF test files would you be willing to run these through your reporting software and publish the results back to the forum for each test page?


Stephen Marsh

 

[avpsoft]

Try to use APFill Ink Coverage calculator. It allows to calculate separated CMYK (+pantones) coverage for each page of PDF/PS files. You can download and try fully functional 30-days free PRO version:
APFill - Ink Coverage Calculator, How to calculate ink coverage and consumption - AVPSOFT

Also try to search this forum for "APFill" keyword.

 

[afilsonCSA]

afilsonCSA, thank you for your post. If I was to provide say half a dozen single page PDF test files would you be willing to run these through your reporting software and publish the results back to the forum for each test page?


Stephen Marsh

I would be happy to do so. As you may already know, paper plays a big role in ink jet ink usage, so depending on the type of stock the numbers will vary. I will give you results with a few different medias so you can see the differences.

 

[tyhoppy]

Thanks for all of the tips. I tried to use apfill, but it was early on and I didn't know what I was doing. I found this free tool, http://lab.dejaworks.com/dev/inc-toner-consumption-calculator/

I'd be curious to know, for those that have apfill, how does the dejaworks link compare in percentages?

 

[tyhoppy]

Years ago when I owned my equipment and did not have a service contract, I would look back a year and add up what I spent in consumables and divide it by the meter count for that same given time frame. It only gives you an average and it would go well with all the other recommendations so far. My point is that you shouldn't rely on a single method to calculate your cost/price.

Great advice. I'll definitely do that after I get a year in with this new equipment.

Thanks!

 

[BobRym]

We also used a CMYK coverage analysis that is available thru Risograph (kind of clunky and time consuming as it is online) - the question that we had is how do we know it's accurate? Are the results really what's happening? As you mentioned - often you do not have a file available when you are being asked for an estimate - still think that the only way to do this and ensure you are not going to lose money on the job is to use a set cost per print for estimating. Even after running the job - how do you determine your real cost if you are purchasing your own toner/ink? This is going to be an ongoing problem as we move forward with these devices as the cost of the toner/ink is a significant portion of the job.

 

[afilsonCSA]

We also used a CMYK coverage analysis that is available thru Risograph (kind of clunky and time consuming as it is online) - the question that we had is how do we know it's accurate? Are the results really what's happening? As you mentioned - often you do not have a file available when you are being asked for an estimate - still think that the only way to do this and ensure you are not going to lose money on the job is to use a set cost per print for estimating. Even after running the job - how do you determine your real cost if you are purchasing your own toner/ink? This is going to be an ongoing problem as we move forward with these devices as the cost of the toner/ink is a significant portion of the job.

You are absolutely right, this is why we created "Ink Control" to give you the exact amount of C, M, Y, and K that a job uses when it runs; every job, over an entire shift or day, or based on a specific parameter you setup. With these reports you can reconcile what you quoted with what was actually used. I know that is after the fact, but as you use this type of tool you will get a feel for coverage and expected ink usage, and keep in mind it is very paper dependent. The same exact file run on two different stocks (coated, and uncoated, treated, etc...) will yield different usage. Even which output color profile you use has an impact. This is what makes it very difficult for estimation tools. If your going to go to Graph Expo take a few min. and ask to see "Ink Control" see what the report looks like, and more importantly ask where the information is coming from for the report (i.e. how do you know if it is accurate?). Obviously I know about Canon's tools, but I would think other vendors have something similar, so ask the manufacturer of your equipment what they have for this.

You are absolutely right that this issue is becoming (and is already) very important to your bottom line. Knowing you can trust this information is vital to your operation, and knowing your not under pricing a job is huge.

If you all are looking at ink jet and cannot get to Graph, consider the Think conference in October, it is an ink jet users group (sponsored by Canon, but it is not run by us). Ask these folks how they are handling this, many have multiple vendors on the floor and have this same challenge across different manufacturers equipment and technologies.