Printer recommendation - 500k B&W impressions per month

[Guest]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum - and already I'm looking for help......

We have a regular contract printing B&W variable data pieces.

The work is split between variable data on preprinted letters, which we subsequently fold, insert into envelopes and stamp, and variable data onto pressure seal pieces.

The volume has increased steadily and is now approaching 500k pieces per month which I'm currently printing on a bunch of small HP 4350 laser printers.

I'm looking to purchase a more serious production printer and I'm looking for any recommendations.

Currently under consideration I have the Ricoh Pro 1107. Canon ImageRunner Pro 7110 and the Xerox 4112.

I'm looking to buy one of these machines used initially and use it as my primay machine with my existing machines as backup and then likely purchase a second machine.

Of key importance to me are the reliability and robustness of these machines. I am a mechanical engineer and prefer to do all my own maintenance if possible so availability and price of maintenance items is a consideration.

I'm also looking for a solution that can produce upwards of 100 ppm.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!


Thanx in advance


Doug

 

[printer in heart]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum - and already I'm looking for help......

We have a regular contract printing B&W variable data pieces.

The work is split between variable data on preprinted letters, which we subsequently fold, insert into envelopes and stamp, and variable data onto pressure seal pieces.

The volume has increased steadily and is now approaching 500k pieces per month which I'm currently printing on a bunch of small HP 4350 laser printers.

I'm looking to purchase a more serious production printer and I'm looking for any recommendations.

Currently under consideration I have the Ricoh Pro 1107. Canon ImageRunner Pro 7110 and the Xerox 4112.

I'm looking to buy one of these machines used initially and use it as my primay machine with my existing machines as backup and then likely purchase a second machine.

Of key importance to me are the reliability and robustness of these machines. I am a mechanical engineer and prefer to do all my own maintenance if possible so availability and price of maintenance items is a consideration.

I'm also looking for a solution that can produce upwards of 100 ppm.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!


Thanx in advance


Doug

If you can go for Docutech any models 6135, 6155 or 6180 - I've been running them for over 10 years and they are very reliable. I have Nuvera now. I like it too, Except don't like the fact that finisher doesn't unload as Docutech did but quality is great

 

[fire11]

Océ All The Way!

Océ All The Way!

I had a similar position when I took over a printshop 3.5 years ago, although we were averaging around 800K per month with low months around 250K and peak months around 1.2K. We were doing lots of bindery work after printing and had been happily running a Xerox 6180 with 2-bin Interposer for about 5 years. After thorough research, I switched us over to an Océ 6250 with 12 bins and I'll never go back to Xerox again for a variety of reasons I'll highlight for you: 1. You can buy it as a 6160, 6200, 6250 or now even a 6320 and they basically run 160, 200, 250 or 320 images per minute! 2. You can buy the slow machine now and field-upgrade (it's software) to a faster model if your needs warrant with no price penalty! 3. It prints on both sides of the sheet at a time for true duplex printing without that crazy racetrack to turn paper over...virtually no paper jams! 4. Toner is heated and then pressed into the paper for more offset-like quality, much better images, true lay-flat printing that's obvious to your customer and will never stick together or to your vinyl ring-binders! 5. No fuser oil to run out and stop your machine! 6. No static electricity causing your sheets to stick together like they did on every other copier I've ever owned, there is no comparison! 7. 12 Paper drawers can all be paper or inserts so we can use it to print forever without stopping! 8. It fuses at about 40% cooler so you use much less electricity to run the machine and much less electricity cooling the room around the machine! 9. It's a much quieter machine! 10. Combine it with PRISMA software like we did for unbelievable document management, editing and color breaking with your color copier like we did with our Konica-Minolta 6500 and you'll be blown away at your productivity! 11. The last thing, we're saving a ton of money every month over our 6180, the normal ones, the slow ones and the busiest ones too! Your mileage may vary but there is no comparison here!

By the way, I'm not a salesman or on commission, I just an owner/manager who loves this machine and don't think nearly enough people hear about it. I'd be eager to field any questions others might have about it as well. Take an open mind and some of your files to a demo and let them give you a sample of the Kool-Aid...after 3 years, it still tastes great to me!

 

[bulksolution2001]

Hey Scotman60,

You sound like you are leaving the stage I am just getting into.. I have a little gig where i need to lay B&W variable to about 40,000 8.5 x 11 a month on preprinted..

I need to go cheap and will be getting the data nightly via csv file to start... What software do you suggest and what printer?

Sorry to hop on your thread but it sounds like you could relate to where I'm at, thanks

-Erik

 

[printmail]

If you can go for Docutech any models 6135, 6155 or 6180 - I've been running them for over 10 years and they are very reliable. I have Nuvera now. I like it too, Except don't like the fact that finisher doesn't unload as Docutech did but quality is great

I have run the same printers also for many years and I agree they all pretty good machines. If I had to pick one though I would go with the Nuvera, it is slower than the rest (unless you get the 288 and print a lot of duplex) as it seems to handle a larger variety of paper types, the Nuvera definately handles coated stocks better than 6135 and 6180.

 

[graficworx]

Hey Scotman60,

You sound like you are leaving the stage I am just getting into.. I have a little gig where i need to lay B&W variable to about 40,000 8.5 x 11 a month on preprinted..

I need to go cheap and will be getting the data nightly via csv file to start... What software do you suggest and what printer?

Sorry to hop on your thread but it sounds like you could relate to where I'm at, thanks

-Erik

Depending on the amount of variable data you need to lay down, and it positioning, fonts, etc... you can use anything from Microsoft Word to Adobe InDesign. InDesign, believe it or not, is very capable of producing variable data work, and I use it routinely. I have also used plain old Word for simple mailings. For 40K a month you could go with something like a Xerox Phaser 5550, which is a 11x17 b&w laser, and if you get a good contract, your click charge would be under a penny per page. Or you could just buy that same machine out right if you think your toner use would be less. There are lots of printers in a reasonable price range that would do 40k a month, even some from HP, but what you need to look at is will the low-end machine last only a few months? You don't want to buy a new printer every 6 months when you wear it out.

 

[OkiTech]

Hello everyone. Mr. Fire11 I think you right about OCE machines, no wonder you like it. Besides printing business we are Business Equipment Dealers, I saw OCE 6320 offer from one of the leasing companies warehouse that we deal with all the time. I will buy one just for the hell of it - it seems like awesome machine. It will stand cool next to Ricoh DDP-184 that we have. Now is the question - guys, we have unlimited resources for equipment, I mean I can built my shop and technologies in it to the client specs really quickly, If I get that OCE, with Ricoh DDP-184 which is spot color laser machine pumping 2 side/ 2 color LT really fast, where could I possibly hunt for the customers who needs these machine's capabilities , I mean we have Ricoh Aficio 105, I gust got In-line puch for it from GBC, bunch of dies available, we have in-line Saddle stitcher for it with Cover feeder and Squareback ( 3 of them as a back up), we have 3 service engineers in house (we're service company after all) to keep everything up and running, how do we get busy-eeer? Few color Xerox machines and like 6 Oki ES3640e (C9800 series) some of those I intend to sell, but we kan keep as many as we need...

 

[bulksolution2001]

hey Graficworx,

thanks for your insight.

 

[scottprint]

We also need to get high speed b & w laser. I have been using 10 plus small printers HP & Dell, and some months, I print more than 500K. I have been using refurbish toners for HP & Dell, and my per page cost is $.005 to $.002 based on about 10% coverage.

Can anyone comments on typical per click charge for these high speed printers?

Thanks.

 

[Steve_S]

I'd stay away from the Oce if you have much post-print bindery. We wish ours would go away as the CopyPress technology sucks for bindery applications. We regularly have to dismantle our folders to clean out what looks like globs of melted toner. That bit has stung us several times on ruined product in the folders. And don't even try it on mail inserters... Or on coated papers...

As much as I hate to say it, Xerox is still king in the black and white world. If you need basic prints without photos or fine shading, get a Docutech. If you want quality imaging and lots of stock possibilities, go Nuvera.

 

[Guest]

Hp 4350!!!!

Hp 4350!!!!

If you want to go cheap, I can highly recommend the HP4350 laser printer. You can pick them up for under $400 a pop on eBay with less than 100k impressions. They process 55 PPM simplex and are very robust. Pick up a 1500 sheet feeder and the 500 sheet output stacker for another $300 - they are worth it.

There are a ton of replacement parts on the web for these printers, lots of info to help you out using Google.

I've been running 400k pieces a month using two of them for the last six months. My printing uses about 4.7% page coverage so I get around 22,000 pages per toner cartridge. I found a really good online toner supplier that ships me the cartridgesd for $40 a pop - free delivery. I have about one cartrige fail out of every ten and they always replace with a new one.

My per page cost is around 0.003 - including the cost of the printer, toner and fuser replacement every 220,000 impressions. At $400 per printer, they're more or less throw away so click charges aren't worthwhile in this case. The first one I bought had 82,000 impressions when I received it and it ow has over 3,000,000 and is going just as strong as the day I bought it... (There is a known issues wth the fuser drive gear that you may have ot ifx - the part is $10 andtakes about an hour to install)

I use Word and Excel - Word mail merge is pretty good and my runs are usually from 2,500 to 10,000 pieces so this solution works well. I generate a raw printer file from the mail merge and then use a simple Print File utility to spool to the printers.

The only downside to the 4350 is its duplex speed. You can pick up duplexer attachments for <$100 but the print speed drops dramatically. For legal size paper, it drops to 11 PPM. This was what caused me to go to a production strength printer - although I still keep my farm of HP4350's for non-duplex work and redundancy.

By the way - I bought a Konica Minolta BizHub 1050 EP. Comissioning it in the shop tomorrow. I hope I made a good choice - I have 1,000,000 duplex pieces to do in March!!!!!




Doug

Hey Scotman60,

You sound like you are leaving the stage I am just getting into.. I have a little gig where i need to lay B&W variable to about 40,000 8.5 x 11 a month on preprinted..

I need to go cheap and will be getting the data nightly via csv file to start... What software do you suggest and what printer?

Sorry to hop on your thread but it sounds like you could relate to where I'm at, thanks

-Erik

 

[giovgreg]

Hi
I do a large amount of bw variable data work. My workhorse is a cannon image runner 7150. The Cannon Service in my area is fantastic and the 'normal maintance' is something that can be learned fairly quickly as far as im concerned. PPM is 150 letter size and im driving my VD with IN Design via XMpie or thru Satori software's Bulk mailer for simplexed Varible Data. The machine has been in place for about 2 years and overall im pleased with its performance. The click charge is reasonable and for the volume your looking at it im sure the rate would be even better.

 

[MacDaddy]

Doug, went to open house at Konica Minolta to see some color production machines last week but they also had bizhub pro 1200 B/W was nice 120 a minute 3 million monthly duty cycle check out link . Konica Minolta Digital Press. bizhub PRO 1200/1200P.

 

[oxburger]

If you're the first responder to the post, it's not necessary to quote the entire friggin' question. We can all assume that you're answering the post for god's sake.

 

[bulksolution2001]

Scotsman60,

This is great info thanks! Ill pick up a 4350 on ebay and start testing... Ill be getting my data in a csv file nightly so now ill just have to figure out what software on my mac to use... maybe mail merge on word but ive never done that either

Thanks so much for the help.

 

[jimgriggs]

scotsman60 HP 4350 stacker stapler mail merge

scotsman60 HP 4350 stacker stapler mail merge

I have a HP 4350 with a stacker/stapler which works fine if I send one document to it but if I send a mail-merge job with many merged documents it does not recognize the individual documents and will staple them all together unless there are more than 15 pages in which case it just dumps them in the tray.

How do I get the HP 4350 to recognize that there are multiple documents to be stapled? There is a mail merge setting on the printer which does not seam to do anything. I have tried all the settings I can find in the PCL5 and PCL6 drivers and in MS Word mail merge.

Don't tell me that you can only print one document at a time to have it stapled. What use is that? HELP!!!

 

[[email protected]]

I'd say about half a penny is a decent click charge on a truly high speed high production machine.

I've heard of Oce' and Xerox going upwards of a penny and I've heard of Xerox accounts getting rates down to .002.

It seems like location and which machine you go with is dictating more of the click rate and then volume. I've seen some Canon rates down to .003 as well. Kodak has state government contracts for their digimaster line with rates as low as .001 (which is the lowest I've ever seen) while at the same time some private accounts were paying .01 for the same machines.

As a partner in a dealership, I'm not concerned as much with volume as I am with toner coverage. If I quote a rate of half a penny or less and the printer starts printing solid black blocks on each page, then I'm headed for a heart attack.

We also need to get high speed b & w laser. I have been using 10 plus small printers HP & Dell, and some months, I print more than 500K. I have been using refurbish toners for HP & Dell, and my per page cost is $.005 to $.002 based on about 10% coverage.

Can anyone comments on typical per click charge for these high speed printers?

Thanks.

 

[[email protected]]

The good honest truth is that for many letter size simplex applications the lowest cost option can often times be a small desktop laser printer. For anything other than that and any finishing I wouldn't recommend them.

I have one account that has about a dozen or so old Canon/HP Color Laserjets running their color letters and bulletins because even at about 6 ppm color; the HUGE surplus of supplies/parts that people are trying to dump real cheap put the full color cost at about .02 per page with about 20-40% color coverage.

If you want to go cheap, I can highly recommend the HP4350 laser printer. You can pick them up for under $400 a pop on eBay with less than 100k impressions. They process 55 PPM simplex and are very robust. Pick up a 1500 sheet feeder and the 500 sheet output stacker for another $300 - they are worth it.

There are a ton of replacement parts on the web for these printers, lots of info to help you out using Google.

I've been running 400k pieces a month using two of them for the last six months. My printing uses about 4.7% page coverage so I get around 22,000 pages per toner cartridge. I found a really good online toner supplier that ships me the cartridgesd for $40 a pop - free delivery. I have about one cartrige fail out of every ten and they always replace with a new one.

My per page cost is around 0.003 - including the cost of the printer, toner and fuser replacement every 220,000 impressions. At $400 per printer, they're more or less throw away so click charges aren't worthwhile in this case. The first one I bought had 82,000 impressions when I received it and it ow has over 3,000,000 and is going just as strong as the day I bought it... (There is a known issues wth the fuser drive gear that you may have ot ifx - the part is $10 andtakes about an hour to install)

I use Word and Excel - Word mail merge is pretty good and my runs are usually from 2,500 to 10,000 pieces so this solution works well. I generate a raw printer file from the mail merge and then use a simple Print File utility to spool to the printers.

The only downside to the 4350 is its duplex speed. You can pick up duplexer attachments for <$100 but the print speed drops dramatically. For legal size paper, it drops to 11 PPM. This was what caused me to go to a production strength printer - although I still keep my farm of HP4350's for non-duplex work and redundancy.

By the way - I bought a Konica Minolta BizHub 1050 EP. Comissioning it in the shop tomorrow. I hope I made a good choice - I have 1,000,000 duplex pieces to do in March!!!!!




Doug

 

[[email protected]]

Short of writing your own print code; there's no other way to tell the printer to staple every "x" pages when they're all in the same file.

I have a HP 4350 with a stacker/stapler which works fine if I send one document to it but if I send a mail-merge job with many merged documents it does not recognize the individual documents and will staple them all together unless there are more than 15 pages in which case it just dumps them in the tray.

How do I get the HP 4350 to recognize that there are multiple documents to be stapled? There is a mail merge setting on the printer which does not seam to do anything. I have tried all the settings I can find in the PCL5 and PCL6 drivers and in MS Word mail merge.

Don't tell me that you can only print one document at a time to have it stapled. What use is that? HELP!!!

 

[jimgriggs]

Special print code .

Special print code .

Thanks. I have someone working on code that will convert each merge record in Word to a new file/print job. Would be nice if Word or Windows spooler had this as an option.


FYI to earlier posts: I bought 2 4350s and 1 4250 on ebay for $50 - $180 each. The $50 one was listed as not working but only required $30 in replacement parts. My print cost is $.0019 per page using the same breakdown as above. We buy bulk toner / chips and have a local source for fusers at $50 each.

Short of writing your own print code; there's no other way to tell the printer to staple every "x" pages when they're all in the same file.