Rampage Upgrade costs

[ian]

Hey guys, just wanted to know what some of the printers are paying for rampage upgrades. We have version 10 and want to upgrade to version 12, the price we have given from Fuji is 14.4K for 2 rips, 2 dlts and 1 shooter
Are there different rip options out there that perform the same but dont have to pay highway roberty prices for upgrades?

 

[prepressdude]

We're in the same boat. To upgrade one RIP shooter, upgrade RAMProof Direct, one Rampage FireCore Workstation Platform, one day on-site install ($1800...what a joke), and, of course, the must-purchase-you-don't-have-a-choice one year Rampage Support Contract ($1750...another joke), the grand total came to $14,500.

Rampage makes a great product but their pricing structure is ridiculous. With our workflow going more and more to the digital side we told Fuji "thanks but no thanks, we'll stick with Version 10." We just couldn't justify the cost! We even asked if we could build our own box and just purchase the software upgrade (which was still $5000 all by itself). They said no way, not a chance.

 

[macphenom]

Highway robbery? Have you ever looked at a Prinergy upgrade? Rampage is probably the best deal you will find anywhere. $1750 for yearly support and it does not matter how many Rampage boxes you have and all the point updates are included in the support price. You would be lucky if Kodak would even talk to you for $1750. After 30 years in the trade and using every rip platform imaginable, Rampage is a steal. Just my two cents worth.

 

[ian]

Highway robbery? Have you ever looked at a Prinergy upgrade? Rampage is probably the best deal you will find anywhere. $1750 for yearly support and it does not matter how many Rampage boxes you have and all the point updates are included in the support price. You would be lucky if Kodak would even talk to you for $1750. After 30 years in the trade and using every rip platform imaginable, Rampage is a steal. Just my two cents worth.

I was today by Fuji that all point upgrades are now chargeable starting 2011, the $1750 is phone support only

Ian

 

[ian]

We're in the same boat. To upgrade one RIP shooter, upgrade RAMProof Direct, one Rampage FireCore Workstation Platform, one day on-site install ($1800...what a joke), and, of course, the must-purchase-you-don't-have-a-choice one year Rampage Support Contract ($1750...another joke), the grand total came to $14,500.

Rampage makes a great product but their pricing structure is ridiculous. With our workflow going more and more to the digital side we told Fuji "thanks but no thanks, we'll stick with Version 10." We just couldn't justify the cost! We even asked if we could build our own box and just purchase the software upgrade (which was still $5000 all by itself). They said no way, not a chance.

Our first quote was 30K, they wanted us to buy their computers too, plus they had a charge of $360 for a usb dongle, which is forced caus the new computers dont come with a parallel port

 

[Mike Bishop]

Newly Upgraded From 10 to 12

Newly Upgraded From 10 to 12

My department has just upgraded from Version 10 to Version 12 with accompanying Firecore 2 x 2.66ghz Quad Core RIP. Our licensing was also upgraded to allow us to drive a new Epson 7900 as well as our old Epson 10600 And Fuji Luxel V6 CTP. A year of support and upgrades (I believe, unless upgrades are indeed chargeable now) was also included. The total cost from Rampage was $14,800.

If upgrades are included in the yearly $1750 and I pay for an additional 4 years of support; then I get 5 years of support and upgrades, a new RIP and the ability to drive two proofers and the CTP for $4,360 a year. (4 years of $1750 is $7000, cost of upgrades and first year of support $14,800 - $14,800 plus $7000 equals $21,800. $21,800 divided by 5 (years) is $4360 a year. This does not seem bad for what is essentially the heart of my Pre-press workflow. In addition if I don't pay for support after this year (I have foregone support to save money before) then my yearly breakdown for 5 years would be $2960. That doesn't sound too bad and is essentially the price of a MacPro and decent monitor. I use the 5 year term because I think you can get by for that long unless something drastic changes in file types, new apps, etc.

I have not used any other contemporary systems but I have used many RIPs over the years and I think Rampage is stable, responsive and not that much money for what you get. By starting over with someone else and buying everything do you think you will save money?

 

[exchief604]

Not bad at all

Not bad at all

I pay more then that a year for the service contracts on Prinect. Could only wish for that kind of costs. Rampage is one of the cheapest to own and upgrade in the long run. Had it for many years in a past life.

 

[Mike Z]

Tech support alone worth the $1750

Tech support alone worth the $1750

Rampage tech support is very reasonable compared to Kodak's Prinergy Evo support which costs around 8-12k depending on your installed options. One call to Kodak for non-contract support costs $3.75/min. with a 30min. minimum totaling at least $112.50. I've used Rampage in the past (ver 8.7x) and they were very responsive and you get an actual person in this country who at least was a tester of the product and sometimes someone involved in the development. Many other companies use people who just look at a database but have not actually worked much in prepress directly.

The one thing I am curious is how the Rampage NORM workflow in v10 and up worked out. Our version could not do a real pdf. Prinergy pdf workflow is great for sending low res pdf to customers for approval. I have never heard anyone using Rampage say they use the NORM workflow, only the ROOM which makes sending vector pdfs not an option. Anyone in this forum use Rampage NORM?

 

[buckeye]

Updates, not upgrades

Updates, not upgrades

Correct me if I'm wrong but the $1,750 for support includes updates, not upgrades.

 

[Mike Bishop]

Charge for point Upgrades - NORM

Charge for point Upgrades - NORM

According to a call I placed to Tech support at Rampage last week there is no cost for point upgrades (12.0 to 12.1, 12.2 to 12.3 etc.). The $1750 gets you unlimited Tech support and all point upgrades in a given year. This is a great deal.

As far as NORM workflow - I have not used it as a standard workflow in Rampage. I don't understand why someone would want to send out a proof that is not RIPed. A vector PDF is not RIPed. Why use the ability of a RIP to NOT RIP something as a selling point? Couldn't you just send out the PDF you are GOING to RIP, get an approval and then RIP it. Apart from sharing files with another printer who has their own trapping and color preferences I don't see the point in the NORM workflow. What advantage does it give you?

 

[Mike Z]

NORM workflow

NORM workflow

The idea behind sending a vector pdf directly from the workflow is that the customer can actually zoom up and see the type and artwork elements, spot color separations, etc. The pdf will have been normalized by the RIP and the fonts embedded or outlined and the images will be downsized to make it for emailing. Sending the original pdf that has not been processed by the workflow could be dangerous. We could never send a usable pdf from Rampage ROOM workflow because of the poor quality of the rasterized type, etc. If I understand Rampages NORM option correctly, it must work similarly to Prinergy and other PDF to PDF workflows. The only issue that could come up is with a complicated layered pdf, a proof must be made with the same print engine that the plate will use to make sure there are no errors in the flattening process.

 

[macphenom]

Confirming what Mike said and verified by Rampage. Rampage does not charge for point releases if you have yearly support and are in the USA.

 

[Mike Bishop]

NORM workflow

NORM workflow

Streamlpress, your description of the need for the NORM workflow is what I thought most people would cite as an advantage of the PDF export ability of the system. I still feel that a non-vector, RIPed PDF is the most logical soft proof to send out, because it is RIPed. The vector proofs you send out do not actually make the hard proofs or plates that you run on press. Your feeling that sending out a native PDF "could be dangerous" is the same feeling I have about sending out a non RIPed PDF. What if you send out a vector PDF and it gets approved, but when RIPing some type of flattening issue takes place that causes the RIPed file to not match the vector PDF proof in some way? Have you really proofed the job?

I send out PDFs from Rampage daily, it is the only soft proof I send out because I know it will match our hard proofs and plate data exactly. I have not had any customer complaints about the RIPed PDFs. I know there are many workflows and methods that can be used, but since this is a Rampage thread I felt I should question the NORM workflow since it does not seem logical to me and it is often used as an argument against Rampage.

In any event, you can always use Rampage Remote if a customer needs to see traplines, separations, etc.

 

[dkinsac]

Prinergy Evo Blows Rampage Away! Sorry, just a fact.

 

[macphenom]

Prinergy Evo Blows Rampage Away! Sorry, just a fact.

Why? Provide some examples of how Prinergy "Blows Away" Rampage.

 

[Mike Z]

Another advantage of NORM

Another advantage of NORM

One other advantage of a NORM workflow, whether thru Rampage or Prinergy is that if you have to send out a job that you are not printing yourself, lets say for a sheetsize that you can't handle or to a larger digital press, etc., you can easily export a high resolution pdf at the last minute with the traps removed. Then whomever is doing the job can trap as necessary for their process.

 

[Mike Bishop]

Norm workflow

Norm workflow

In my initial post I did state "Apart from sharing files with another printer who has their own trapping and color preferences I don't see the point in the NORM workflow." I do see that exporting imposed vector PDFs could be a useful feature, but only if the recipient wants to use your exact layout, sheetsize, etc. If not, it is probably best to just send a high res PDF and let the outside printer apply their own layout and of course trapping and color management. Norm just seems like a much celebrated workflow that only has a few specific features that apply to most printers and print jobs. Rampage can export decent quality, RIPed PDFs, that I use everyday for proofing. I send out high res PDFs when I am sending a job to another printer or print format (labels, large format), my RIP does not even come into play. Now if I had a "sister" company or department and we had nailed down how things need to be impoed I could see myself sending impoed vector PDFs, but that does not apply to me and I would guess it does not apply to most printers. And even those it does apply to probably don't use it most of the time.

In general I just think it is odd to use the lack of "true" NORM workflow as a criticism against Rampage. I have used Rampage for years in very successful companies and it has worked very well. I am sure that Rampage is in the top 3(?) workflows as far as market share goes; and those users aren't encountering problems due to Rampages particular feature set. All of the current workflows obviously work. Some people end up with a workflow because the boss is sold on it or it has one special feature that they really need, or when they started working there the workflow was already in place or it would be too hard to start over with another product, etc. But some people get a workflow because they are told that a competing workflow is not as good as the one that the (always honest) salesperson is pitching to them or they read on forums like this that a particular workflow, in this case Rampage, isn't a "real" workflow because it lacks a feature that very, very few could not live without.

 

[kdc415]

Any recent upgrade prices?

Any recent upgrade prices?

Anyone have any recent quotes to go from 10 to 12 with the FireCore workstation?

 

[swcook6]

That hi res RIPped PDF is great until you have a 1200 page 4C process book. That turns into a monster 5 GB file. Clients love waiting all day for that baby to download and then trying to open it up and proof it.

 

[Raymond Ramirez]

I have seen and heard a lot of complaints on the cost of the upgrades on workflows. The only thing I have to say is that the software developers have cost and have to make money just like you do. I can assure you that no one at Rampage has 2 jets a yacht and an Island in the south pacific with those cost. Rampage has pretty much Kept the cost of there worflow lower than most and has probably the best service I have ever seen. I dont think there is anyone out there paying more than 500.00 a month for there Rampage workflow... This is less than what you would be paying for an employee to be on your payroll for configuring and supporting your prepress software.