Ready to get OUT of the business ...

[Bobmorli]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

Due to changing laws etc the drinking / smoking days have gone long before my time in prepress. (only been in it for about 2.5 years.

Don't mean that i'm one of the young unexperienced guy. I've been into prepress far longer than my working days. I'm the one that has to explain to the older employees how certain things work. The times I've enjoyed the words "I don't know how I've done this"
But the knodledge of the CSR is not something to be proud of I must admit. It's come to the point where I get calls from CSR asking to help out a customer with basic illustrator/photoshop/indesign/quark issues and other design related matters.
And yes, after you explain to CSR what you need to get done from the customer, you recieve adjusted files accompanied with all the e-mail communication only to realise your remarks have been interpreted by CSR to something completely incorrect.
Example:
We get an e-mail from customers asking us to check a design with an online proofing system. I check out the system only to find I can only download a 'hires' pdf consisting of a single JPEG file (no separate elements) and RGB. I tell CSR the problem: I can't check trapping, images,... I need elements. After a couple of days I get another mail asking me to check again. Nothing changed. Again I repeat my reuest to CSR. Turns out the customer will send us a good (?) pdf once we approve we can print the pdf supplied with their system. Asking for trouble here...

 

[jbvanness]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

This is totally understandable that you are frustrated. Too many "clients" coming out of art school have no knowledge of print and think it is below them to ever work in a print shop. Honestly I have been in prepress for over 7 years and this experience helps my freelance design business tremendously because I can set files up for printing. I am a very firm believer that people in school should be required to do at least 6 months to a year internship at a print shop of some sorts. Smaller the better because if it's smaller you have more to deal with and you get more knowledge.

I have seen a lot of prepress people walk away from jobs due to frustrations like this. I feel it is part of the job and it's a crappy part but it's not going to change any time soon. Maybe it's just that I like to educate our clients for the next time or maybe it's just that I am crazy. Ha! I definitely understand why you would want to walk away. There are many, many days where I want to but something keeps me coming back for more abuse.

I do agree the salesman should of made the call but at the same time we all know how well they can relay information when they are just as clueless. ha!

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

I've been polishing turds for 25 years. I hope they never go away or monkeys will take away my position! You need to adapt and overcome, improvise and be a leader, this is survival of the fittest damn it! Go ahead...quit.....that's more work for me!!!
-T

 

[cosmotcat]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

First of all don't tell ME how I have to 'adapt and overcome, improvise and be a leader.'

THAT sounds like nothing more than, pure, corporate - kiss-a**, bullsh**.

WTF do think I HAVE been doing for the last (almost) 25 years?

So if I do quit, and there is more work for you, does that mean that a monkey HAS taken over my position?

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

Cosmo-
You need to relax, and realize your limitations. The Walmart position is way over your head!
-T

 

[WadeVC]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

*Oh my God yes cosmotcat!* It seems as if every week we are getting more and more garbage from so-called "Graphic Designers" who have absolutely NO clue as to how to properly set up a file (no bleeds, fonts, RGB, etc).

It seems as if every ding-dong is purchasing PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign etc., and "PRESTO", they are a Graphic Designer. Yet try and talk to these moronic nimrods about setting up thier files and they are as clueless as clueless can get.

I love my job...it's the idiots I get files from I can't stand!

 

[disbellj]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

cosmotcat,

Don't listen to Todd, he just doesn't understand that we all owe a great debt of gratitude to those that came before us. We are building on what they have already built, or as I've heard it said before "We are but pygmies standing on the shoulders of giants". His remarks show the ingratitude in general today. Wisea** remarks that sound like they come from someone who still hasn't finished high school. He'll learn in time hopefully. As for me, I agree 100% with you. And I've put many people out of a job by doing more on the computer (choice was Mac at the time, and I still prefer it) than they could hope to do stripping film and/or running Scitex. But I respected and learned many things from those old men. Todd probably wouldn't believe if you told him that there was a time when there were strippers who put egg whites on film to make the emulsion (if he even knows what film is). When young ones say dumb sh*t like that, just laugh at their ignorance. He may talk a good talk, but does he know what to do when the program doesn't want to act right, or something's not working for him? Does he know how to trouble-shoot? I doubt it with his remarks. Us older people have been around and seen things younger people can learn from if they give us half a chance (and BTW I'm only 34.5 yrs old but this industry can make anyone feel old after awhile, especially if they really care about what they're doing and see the industry in the condition that it's in, with all the conflicting information and inability for standards bodies to come to agreement on anything useful)

Don

 

[margadri]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

"quote"
Cosmo-
You need to relax, and realize your limitations. The Walmart position is way over your head!
-T

Don't let people like these put you off
I don't know why he wrote such a silly thing
Maybe is overwork or frustration
I, like most of us, understand your point and feel for you
Adriano

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

Don,
Your latest post does show exactly how little you do know. When I started in this business we were still hand setting type. I've forgotten more about printing then you have known. You want everything spelled out in black and white, and push button simple, but you still want to earn top dollar. You'll be the loudest complainer when your position is eliminated. You should spend more time learning and understanding the standards, and less time in the forums seeking affirmation with your rants and whining!
-T

 

[disbellj]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

To the other people on this forum, I apologize for getting so riled up, and want each of you to know that my response has been to Todd and him alone. What you're about to read doesn't pertain to anyone but Todd. If anyone else feels I have tried to bully them or anything like that, I'm sorry you feel that way, since that hasn't been my intention.

Todd,

I really don't give a crap what you think I know. Maybe you do know more than me, I don't know that and you don't know that.

But one thing's for sure: You went into put-down mode on cosmotcat, and frankly it disgusted me so I said something. You don't like what I said? Good. That was my intention.

As for earning top dollar in this industry, I now could care less. The reason I want it spelled out black and white is to HELP THE WHOLE INDUSTRY! Everyone would have it easier if we were all on the same page. Working smarter and not harder. That's why I've been here.

I don't have any problems I can't handle where I work. I am the only real prepress person at my work. I make the decisions on how to fix a problem. Nobody tells me how, since I know better than they do. They may tell me WHAT needs fixed, but I know HOW to do it. The reason I've been here this whole time is to try to bring awareness to issues prepress deals with and ways that it all could be made simpler. I know you probably don't care about helping anyone but yourself. That's the kind of person you sound like. Frankly I don't need affirmation from you or anybody else (though of course it's nice to hear from those that mean it). My boss appreciates the job I do (at least in words, and I have gotten a number of raises from both of my employers I've worked for over the years, better rasies from my previous employer though), my customers don't complain EVER without me fixing what they want fixed and them walking away saying "Thank you very much!". So if I sound like a lost child in the wilderness to you, crying out for somebody to help me survive in this big bad business or world, you've sadly mistaken my posts and my intentions.

FYI I'll soon be gone from these forums, which should make you very happy. Maybe the people on these forums will be happier with you here than me. I'll be happier too, making more money in a week or two than I do now in a year. And then you can laugh all you want, because I won't hear you. I'll be enjoying myself every day while you're working for a living.

You being an a**hole is what started this. Cosmotcat didn't and doesn't deserve your bullshit. You may be the smartest person in the world (probably not), but irregardless, you're still an a**hole. You don't like me? I don't care. Go find someone who gives a f*ck.

Don

 

[Cory Smith]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

It's time to call this one good. If you have anything else to add in reference to the OP, please do so.

 

[gordo]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

Well...check out:

http://1000nerds.kodak.com/search/default.asp?item=604505

best, gordo

 

[cosmotcat]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

WOW ... I didn't mean to start an argument.

Heh heh heh heh ... actually ... Walmart may very well be way over my head ... due to BURNOUT from dealing with corporate buttheads with attitudes like you'all know who (no offense to you know who).

Okay ... I am done venting now. Time for a new year, and job, a new persepctive.

... "Would you like a hot apple pie with that?" ...

Happy New Year to all and to all a good night.

 

[Tech]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

I'm late to this discussion, if we can call it that...

Just to offer my perspective from publishers end, it's part designer's ego and mostly out-dated training that is really the root of providing poor source files to vendors. They don't consider preparing clean pre-ready files as part of their job... certainly when we have CSRs that comes in and sold our designers on how they can fix any problem and get something printed with minimal or no fee that only further encourage designers not to clean up their acts.

If you really want to stop receiving poorly prepare files, start charging by the hour like a good car mechanic and you'll see how fast publishers will get their designers to jump through hoops and stop having secretaries create PDFs.

 

[G_Town]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

That's been the age old response, unfortunately the retort was "fine we'll take it to someone else" strong arming the customer or suddenly charging for things you didn't in the past is a sure way to risk losing a customer in a already hyper competitive market.

Maybe you could do it on a new customer but then theres always the guy down the street that will do it for free to get the business.

All you can do IMHO is try as hard as you can to educate, get your people talking to the customer or the people creating the artwork for the customer, create relationships, foster communication, meet with your customer and make them a partner in the process. I've done this over the years and had to do it multiple times with the same customer because of employee turnover at the customer. Almost without fail (well you will get the occasional butthead thats either to stupid or just doesn't care to know) I have found the designers to be receptive to ideas to better supply files for example converting fonts to outlines supplying pdf using the distiller setting I provide etc.

That's where we are at in this day and age of every tom, dick and sally firing of files to be printed so we as the people in the trenches need to act on our own behalf, no one else is that's for sure.

my2¢

 

[jinthebay]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

G-Town said it. I'd always (at least try) to create a working relationship with a client as early as possible. I've invested (hours sometimes) talking new designers through some very basic steps of prepress and it's always been very appreciated. The thought process being that, I'd rather spend the time with them now and get THEM to do it right, then to ALWAYS have to fix their files in the future. Most salespersons don't care what we have to do. They don't really understand and don't want to. And I certainly don't want them translating things for me! In this business climate, customer service has become as big a part of prepress as IT or creative design ability or typography. Pick up the phone. Talk to your customers and their designers. Stop crying about it. You get paid by the hour like most people in prepress, don't you?

 

[Rob.Morgan]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

> {quote:title=G_Town wrote:}{quote}
> That's been the age old response, unfortunately the retort was "fine we'll take it to someone else" But if the files are +really+ in such bad shape and the guy down the street fixes them for free, won't he soon go out of business? Something has to give - either the files are not so bad or the guy down the street has better equipment/skills to be able to deal with them or he is able to train the customer or something. Nobody can keep losing money forever.

Does anyone have any stories where you said "go ahead, take it to someone else" and that someone else had just as much trouble as you did?

Cheers,
Rob

 

[cosmotcat]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

At my old job few years back, we had a rather large job come in. I cannot remember exactly what it was, as I wasn't the primary preress person working the job (thank god). It was FULL of problems; very POORLY produced files, corrupt fonts, corrupt images and all kinds of strange stuff that made our Macs and our RIPs go crazy. The client's response was, +"I don't understand what the problem is, our last printer didn't have a problem."+

*NOT TRUE*

The manager somehow got a hold of the last printer that did the job ... their response was "Oh, YOU go that job. We were wondering who was getting it next. I'm sorry."

It turns out they had significant problems as well and muddled through it like we were doing.

I pretty much just go numb when I hear "I always send files like that." or "My last printer didn't have a problem with it."

*YES, THEY DID.* Apparently they just didn't have the nerve to +call you+ on it.

OOOO ... Here's one more ...

Job comes in, we did our prepress stuff to it and proofed it. Client comes in, carrying a proof that HE printed on HIS 'printer'. He's being quite PISSY and wondering "Why does your proof look like this?" I calmly sat at him in front of my workstation and ...

As I am opening his original file he is saying - still clutching HIS 'homemade' proof in his hand, "I don't understand, I printed THIS proof from THIS very fi ... Oh, okay. I'll send you a new file."

I gotta still chuckle at that one.

 

[Tech]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

Even though, most of my career, I have been working at publisher's side... I always find myself relating better to people like Cosmotcat. The truth is files do need to be create, design and prepare correctly upstream, otherwise delay shipments of finished products looks bad from publisher's perspective. This is often a difficult concept to get it through designers' head because a delay product doesn't reflect their "creative" design... it's someone else's problem.

If there is one program all design schools should incorporate is a good pre press class that can better prepare them for the newage of digital printing. Hack, many old school designers really need to go back to take a course like this. I have seen too many designers whom don't value a well constructed layout.

 

[Tech]

Re: Ready to get OUT of the business ...

> {quote:title=G_Town wrote:}{quote}
> That's been the age old response, unfortunately the retort was "fine we'll take it to someone else" strong arming the customer or suddenly charging for things you didn't in the past is a sure way to risk losing a customer in a already hyper competitive market.
>
> Maybe you could do it on a new customer but then theres always the guy down the street that will do it for free to get the business.
>
> All you can do IMHO is try as hard as you can to educate, get your people talking to the customer or the people creating the artwork for the customer, create relationships, foster communication, meet with your customer and make them a partner in the process. I've done this over the years and had to do it multiple times with the same customer because of employee turnover at the customer. Almost without fail (well you will get the occasional butthead thats either to stupid or just doesn't care to know) I have found the designers to be receptive to ideas to better supply files for example converting fonts to outlines supplying pdf using the distiller setting I provide etc.
>
> That's where we are at in this day and age of every tom, dick and sally firing of files to be printed so we as the people in the trenches need to act on our own behalf, no one else is that's for sure.
>
> my2¢


I fully agree on trying to educate designers whenever possible and work with them closely. This is a process that works with well with new designers but tried explaining you problems to older, established designers and hotshot art directors... you'll see their eyes rolled and kick it to someone else to fix it for them. In the end, problem gets resolved but you can expect to see the same shit from the same designer/art director in near future.

Of course, some already call this job security but if the only way to have job security is when you hope others are making mistakes then it's time to find a new career.