Recommend a Digital Press

[Petie B]

What about the Canon?

 

[artshostak]

What about the Canon?

There were some items on Canon's lease and service agreement that were a bit discouraging – color oversize rate (basically charging extra for a 12" x 18" print), a cancellation premium, expenses at the end of the full lease term, high residual in case of buy-out, escalators at the end of each term, and potential toner limits and additional charges for labour. It's not likely the direction we are heading, but nothing's been ruled out as of yet.

 

[rewinkeb]

Have you asked the following; how many machines each company has placed, for references, tours so you can ask operators for there honest opinion and how often they have to call service. Service is huge! It will make or break you. Have you tested your work on these devices? They always have those pretty little test files that come out looking so nice but real application is a totally different matter.

 

[lfelton]

+1 that service is at least as important as the "badge"

I'm probably mistaken here, but isn't the KM C652 an office copier/printer? If you are comparing against a Xerox 550 and Ricoh light production kit, shouldn't you really be comparing the Bizhub Pro C5501 or even the newer C6000? Then you can spec a proper high cap feed tray with air separation, which will really help out feeding coated and difficult stocks.

Sorry if I've missed the point!

 

[artshostak]

Have you asked the following; how many machines each company has placed, for references, tours so you can ask operators for there honest opinion and how often they have to call service. Service is huge! It will make or break you. Have you tested your work on these devices? They always have those pretty little test files that come out looking so nice but real application is a totally different matter.

All good points. We've seen only a few of these units in their working environment, it's made a big difference in our assessment. We've printed some of our work done with an off-set machine in comparison, as well as standard GATF-like test prints. Everyone seems to boasting about their exceptional service quality, but we haven't really received service reports from an actual consumer. How could we go about this?

+1 that service is at least as important as the "badge"

I'm probably mistaken here, but isn't the KM C652 an office copier/printer? If you are comparing against a Xerox 550 and Ricoh light production kit, shouldn't you really be comparing the Bizhub Pro C5501 or even the newer C6000? Then you can spec a proper high cap feed tray with air separation, which will really help out feeding coated and difficult stocks.

Sorry if I've missed the point!

You are right, although this is what has been recommended to us. I originally started my contact with KM by inquiring about C6000, but it's out of our price range and the C652 is said to compare pretty well with what it's up against. The Ricoh and Xerox are indeed listed as light-production units, although I don't see what distinguishes either from the KM model. Seems like a mere way for the company to categorize their units – since I am told a true production machine runs on 240V and neither of these do (120V). Tell me if I am mistaken here.

 

[lfelton]

I think you need to consider issues like whether the machine is capable of reliably duplexing oversized gloss paper with a reasonable level of f-t-b registration accuracy. Personally, I'd ignore the voltage question as not really relevant.

 

[artshostak]

I think you need to consider issues like whether the machine is capable of reliably duplexing oversized gloss paper with a reasonable level of f-t-b registration accuracy. Personally, I'd ignore the voltage question as not really relevant.

The voltage question isn't really relevant, it's simply what was relayed to me as a shorthand method of determining whether a unit is a production machine or an office machine. In this case, all of these that are being considered are office units. I was simply addressing your initial inquiry of why we aren't comparing apples to apples. I believe we are.

With that being said, we don't need a production unit if you consider our volume of 5,000 impressions a month. KM has just offered us a used 6501 and I don't really think it's the direction this company will want to take.

About duplexing large-sized gloss – it might be a good method to test the registration accuracy, but not necessarily anything we will be doing anytime soon. It will be simplex letter ads ganged up on a 12" x 18". That's as far as this machine will be pushed.

Some things that are surfacing now:

• BuyersLab lists the KM BizHub C652 as a device that's enhanced resolution is only 600 x 600 instead of 1800 x 600 as it is advertised. Does this mean it's true resolution is simulated?
• Is bit-depth an important aspect to consider? Seems like KM prides itself on 8-bit technology, while others are careful not to disclose it.
• It appears that all the Fiery systems we are being offered – whether embedded, external or bustled – are very similar in nature and never a true External system. Should I value a RIP that runs 9R2 over one that's still on version 8?

 

[lfelton]

Oh. I was addressing your stated objectives:

"...(color letter-sized ads, fee-guide brochures, etc.) and are now looking to begin producing these in-house. We need a digital color press for short-run production of around 5,000 items a month. Print quality is crucial. Most of our items are printed on a glossy surface (sometimes on black background, sometimes with gradients and blocks of solid color)."

I guess your requirements have moved on now. I'm the MD of a company that runs KM machines hard in a production environment, so may have been able to give you some insights into that type of machine. Sorry, no experience with the office machines, best of luck.