Ricoh C900

[eprint]

Hi

Am looking for any feedback on the c900 in terms of costs, quality of prints, any RIP issues etc etc

Thanks
Barry

 

[StrikTenn913]

It's my understanding that although they have launched the product, it has yet to be installed for any customers.

 

[THE PROFILER]

C900

C900

C900 - 1200DPI 2 bit colour. Colour space close to the Cannon 7000.

 

[vwrome]

There are c900 out there already. They should be more soon. The model with scanning & optics is also available now.

 

[THE PROFILER]

where abouts ?... in the uk ?.

 

[rogue]

C900 - 1200DPI 2 bit colour. Colour space close to the Cannon 7000.

Wrong--it's not close. I've seen both. C900 doesn't measure up to the Canon C7000. Details, midtones, shadows and highlights are all better on the Canon.

 

[THE PROFILER]

Icc

Icc

i was just stating a fact... I have profiled both and the lab values on the colour space are very close. 7000 just pips it.... So, yes very close.

 

[X33]

I see Ricoh out there pitching their C900 every day; but I still can't find a customer that has one (in my metro area of course).

I wonder why.

anyone out there that actually purchased one?

 

[ATM12765897]

C900 from Ricoh

C900 from Ricoh

The C900 is a huge success for Ricoh. In the 2+ months since it's been launched, Ricoh has sold 28. I also noticed on this blog that the negative comments on this product were all from before the product was launched for sale.

Now that it's out there, they've stopped???

Ricoh has also come out with the C900S (scanning version) 2 weeks earlier then expected, and Xerox, Canon and Konica are doing everything to try and stop Ricoh (will not work.)

So to answer the blog questions, yes, Ricoh has sold numerous C900's to satisfied customers who previously had Canon, Xerox or Konica, and Ricoh will sell a lot more in a very short period of time.

Ricoh could very easily dominate this market in a very short period of time.

 

[UberTech]

The C900 is a huge success for Ricoh. In the 2+ months since it's been launched, Ricoh has sold 28. I also noticed on this blog that the negative comments on this product were all from before the product was launched for sale.

Now that it's out there, they've stopped???

Ricoh has also come out with the C900S (scanning version) 2 weeks earlier then expected, and Xerox, Canon and Konica are doing everything to try and stop Ricoh (will not work.)

So to answer the blog questions, yes, Ricoh has sold numerous C900's to satisfied customers who previously had Canon, Xerox or Konica, and Ricoh will sell a lot more in a very short period of time.

Ricoh could very easily dominate this market in a very short period of time.

Now THATS what I call Ricoh Coolade.

 

[Craig]

The C900 is a huge success for Ricoh. In the 2+ months since it's been launched, Ricoh has sold 28. I also noticed on this blog that the negative comments on this product were all from before the product was launched for sale.

Now that it's out there, they've stopped???

Ricoh has also come out with the C900S (scanning version) 2 weeks earlier then expected, and Xerox, Canon and Konica are doing everything to try and stop Ricoh (will not work.)

So to answer the blog questions, yes, Ricoh has sold numerous C900's to satisfied customers who previously had Canon, Xerox or Konica, and Ricoh will sell a lot more in a very short period of time.

Ricoh could very easily dominate this market in a very short period of time.

WOW, Caught me without my hip waders on! With 28 installs, Ricoh has just effectively shut down sales for everyone else!

All kidding aside, Ricoh needs to get some serious volume under their belts before they can dominate the production market. With only 28 installs, they don't even have the bugs worked out yet. Does anyone on this forum actually OWN or OPERATE one on a DAILY basis?

As a Ricoh MP9000 owner, I'm not bashing, just trying to bring you back down to reality. This is the same hype Random was spewing when the 6500 was launched.

 

[X33]

The C900 is a huge success for Ricoh. In the 2+ months since it's been launched, Ricoh has sold 28.

28 units where? one city, one state, one country, worldwide?

 

[UberTech]

28 units where? one city, one state, one country, worldwide?

Well I would say Ricoh has given each state a free C900 to give to a high profile printer to spur on sales, i.e "Uberpress has one - why wouldn't you have one Mr Plebpress?". Typically this operator will run the machine for virtually free and strangely enough won't have a bad word to say about it.

But yeah, I assume these 28 can work a computer lets get them on here.

 

[StrikTenn913]

This is ridiculous. One the profiling piece that was mentioned, there are so many factors... paper... color settings. I doubt this was an apples to apples comparison.

Let's get the owners on here to tell their stories. Sales people are just sales people.

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

What happens when you run a high number of pages month after month, year after year, I think that is what most of us have questions on as well as is the machine serviced like a copier or as a digital press? When it goes down as all digital presses do what is the response, do the technicians understand graphic arts color?

Also can anyone explain this one to me, looking at where I believe Ricoh is targeting this device to compete here are some duty cycles.

Xerox 7000AP duty cycle 1,000,000
Xerox 8000AP duty cycle 1,500,000
Ricoh C900 duty cycle 400,000

90 pages per minute x 60 minutes = 5400 per hour
Lets assume 50% downtime for ripping files, loading and unloading paper, PM, service, breaks and lunches.
5400 pages per hour x 50% = 2700 pages per hour
400,000 pages per month duty cycle / 2700 ppm = 148 hours

8 hour shift 5 days a week is 40 hours.
4 weeks a month is 160 hours.

So if I assume a bad rate of 50% down time this machine is designed for less then 1 shift monthly operation. If I have 60% uptime then I can run the device on 8 hour shifts 4 days a week????

This device does not appear to have been built to compete with a Xerox DC 7000/8000AP based on the above math, nor higher end devices such as Xerox i-Gen, Kodak NexPress 2100/2500/3000, or HP Indigo 5000/5500/7000 who have higher monthly duty cycles. It has the speed to but falls short on what it's monthly volume is intended for. If I am looking at any of the above devices I would have a volume to run more then 1 shift, it would also be overkill for the Konica 6501 and Docucolor 240/250/260 or 700 markets.

Where is this machine supposed to fit in the Graphic Arts world???? Or is this device supposed to go in schools and corporate offices to make copies fast?

 

[UberTech]

[SCENE]
A tumbleweed rolls across a sandy forcourt, an eagle squaks in the background to disturb the tense silence.

ATM12765897 never before faced with such queries wonders why nobody asked how many sheets it can staple.
[/SCENE]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd ACTION!

 

[kire]

Making money or not??

Making money or not??

What happens when you run a high number of pages month after month, year after year, I think that is what most of us have questions on as well as is the machine serviced like a copier or as a digital press? When it goes down as all digital presses do what is the response, do the technicians understand graphic arts color?

Also can anyone explain this one to me, looking at where I believe Ricoh is targeting this device to compete here are some duty cycles.

Xerox 7000AP duty cycle 1,000,000
Xerox 8000AP duty cycle 1,500,000
Ricoh C900 duty cycle 400,000

90 pages per minute x 60 minutes = 5400 per hour
Lets assume 50% downtime for ripping files, loading and unloading paper, PM, service, breaks and lunches.
5400 pages per hour x 50% = 2700 pages per hour
400,000 pages per month duty cycle / 2700 ppm = 148 hours

8 hour shift 5 days a week is 40 hours.
4 weeks a month is 160 hours.

So if I assume a bad rate of 50% down time this machine is designed for less then 1 shift monthly operation. If I have 60% uptime then I can run the device on 8 hour shifts 4 days a week????

This device does not appear to have been built to compete with a Xerox DC 7000/8000AP based on the above math, nor higher end devices such as Xerox i-Gen, Kodak NexPress 2100/2500/3000, or HP Indigo 5000/5500/7000 who have higher monthly duty cycles. It has the speed to but falls short on what it's monthly volume is intended for. If I am looking at any of the above devices I would have a volume to run more then 1 shift, it would also be overkill for the Konica 6501 and Docucolor 240/250/260 or 700 markets.

Where is this machine supposed to fit in the Graphic Arts world???? Or is this device supposed to go in schools and corporate offices to make copies fast?

After my point of view you cant just look at duty cycles -all this machines are built to ampv for 300-400 k , so Canon Imagepress and both Xerox machines and the new Ricoh are targeted to the same market and customers. The duty cycles for Xerox is for A4 with a low target color- ask Xerox to give a target duty cycle if you just print SRA3 heavy stock and 80% in color. All tests for this three machines shows also very close and similar print quality if you choose to believe a lot of independent tests for example a test done in the Nordics by AGI. So the final question is - are you in the business to earn money or do you want to pay the money you get in for the first 50k to xerox or canon because of larger investments. I am sure that close to all of ordinary customers today will say that all digital prints from this vendors are more than good enough!! So finally just ask yourself if you are in this business to make money or not - if the answer is no stick to the plan and buy Xerox.

And yes I now work for Ricoh but have been several years also for Kodak. Ricoh is today absolutely an good alternative to consider

regards Kire

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I still see an issue with spending what is the price range??? I found this site that lists these machines. Ricoh C900 | packagingnews.co.uk

So lets say $200,000 and only running one shift, if I am going to place this it will have to do 2 or 3 eight hour shifts a day consistently which is going to blow by the duty cycle. So what does this mean, parts go out faster, more service calls, more downtime.

The price of the machine means nothing when you have the volume of running 2 or 3 shifts a day and pay click charges. I'll have to look into what the click charges would be for 1,000,000 or 1,500,000 running every month. If I can get $.04 on 1,000,000 a month I spend $480,000 on clicks or the equivalent of almost 2.5 machines in year one.

That's the second most important what are the ongoing costs to operate the device (clicks and service), the first is what is the downtime related to service. When I call for it how long does it take and is it fixed on that same visit. If the press is down and I can't print a job and I loose a customer I'm probably better off paying more for the machine and clicks if I have less risk of loosing a customer.

I defer back to my earlier comment until these devices have high volume on them ran over time many of us are going to look to solutions that have known service and reliability. Take the car maker Hyundai, that came to market with a low cost car over time they have grown market share and have models that compete with manufacturers that have been known in the US for years. How did they grow share, in my opinion service. 100,000 mile warranty, they set the bar higher then what others were offering, and oh yea the purchase price is competitive. They didn't say look this car can go faster then a ferrari and it's low priced.

 

[Craig]

After my point of view you cant just look at duty cycles -all this machines are built to ampv for 300-400 k , so Canon Imagepress and both Xerox machines and the new Ricoh are targeted to the same market and customers. The duty cycles for Xerox is for A4 with a low target color- ask Xerox to give a target duty cycle if you just print SRA3 heavy stock and 80% in color. All tests for this three machines shows also very close and similar print quality if you choose to believe a lot of independent tests for example a test done in the Nordics by AGI. So the final question is - are you in the business to earn money or do you want to pay the money you get in for the first 50k to xerox or canon because of larger investments. I am sure that close to all of ordinary customers today will say that all digital prints from this vendors are more than good enough!! So finally just ask yourself if you are in this business to make money or not - if the answer is no stick to the plan and buy Xerox.

And yes I now work for Ricoh but have been several years also for Kodak. Ricoh is today absolutely an good alternative to consider

regards Kire

So from what I read Ricoh C900 Duty cycle is based on SRA3, Heavy Stock and 80% coverage. That's quite a switch from how they rate my MP9000.

Sorry, but I have to side with Internal R&D on this one

 

[kire]

I still see an issue with spending what is the price range??? I found this site that lists these machines. Ricoh C900 | packagingnews.co.uk

So lets say $200,000 and only running one shift, if I am going to place this it will have to do 2 or 3 eight hour shifts a day consistently which is going to blow by the duty cycle. So what does this mean, parts go out faster, more service calls, more downtime.

The price of the machine means nothing when you have the volume of running 2 or 3 shifts a day and pay click charges. I'll have to look into what the click charges would be for 1,000,000 or 1,500,000 running every month. If I can get $.04 on 1,000,000 a month I spend $480,000 on clicks or the equivalent of almost 2.5 machines in year one.

That's the second most important what are the ongoing costs to operate the device (clicks and service), the first is what is the downtime related to service. When I call for it how long does it take and is it fixed on that same visit. If the press is down and I can't print a job and I loose a customer I'm probably better off paying more for the machine and clicks if I have less risk of loosing a customer.

I defer back to my earlier comment until these devices have high volume on them ran over time many of us are going to look to solutions that have known service and reliability. Take the car maker Hyundai, that came to market with a low cost car over time they have grown market share and have models that compete with manufacturers that have been known in the US for years. How did they grow share, in my opinion service. 100,000 mile warranty, they set the bar higher then what others were offering, and oh yea the purchase price is competitive. They didn't say look this car can go faster then a ferrari and it's low priced.

Of course is not the duty cycle based on that !! . But if you see on all tech information about these three machines they are pretty close. Xerox has blown off the duty cycle and is the only machine that says the duty cycle is more than three times ampv - a lot of key parts have not the same duty cycle . On every Xerox DC8000 installation that I know this is not a fact but something on a paper. I even have a customer that says the performance and duty cycle on his first DC8000 is much better than the last one because of different print volumes and jobs. So my point is- the duty cycles is not the key factor to see how much you can produce on a device each mnth and if you produce over three times what xerox says is max volume on the device each mnth I am quite sure the duty cycle is history and not facts. And to calulate and compare you have do it within the specs over what is the max volume per.mnth and for all these engines it is 400 k max per mnth( on Ricoh we say average is 240 k). If you produce a million print each mnth on a DC 8000 without any tech support form Xerox I will say that printquality is not key selling factor for your business and your uptime is blown!! I will also say that if you want to produce with a good quality it is better and easier to do it with a fresh and tuned engine.

And remember if you want to compare this duty cycle against Hyundai you need to know if this duty cycle is within spec the next 5 years(or maybe 2 or 3) or are you quite sure you can produce 1.500.000 x 60=90 million prints on a DC 8000!!!!

So back to my point-I am sure Ricoh PRO C900 is a good alterative to consider for a customer who wants a reliable and great color engine. And if the PRO C900 is too small you can choose to go up to a Nexpress. And yes we also have trained techs - we even have tech people with background from Xerox and Kodak. So keep your options open - it is not dangerous to have alternatives to consider.

Reg Kire