Riso Comcolor GD 7330 aftermarket ink..worth it or not?

[Nwsltr]

Hi!
I lease a Riso Comcolor GD7330 and have been buying my ink directly from the Riso supplier. I found a reputable aftermarket ink supplier which would cut my costs by 2/3s!
My question is what are the risks of running aftermarket inks? If there are risks do the savings outway the risks?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ynot_UK]

Hi!
I lease a Riso Comcolor GD7330 and have been buying my ink directly from the Riso supplier. I found a reputable aftermarket ink supplier which would cut my costs by 2/3s!
My question is what are the risks of running aftermarket inks? If there are risks do the savings outway the risks?

Thanks in advance!

What does it say about consumables in your leasing/maintenance agreement?
Are you obligated to purchase OEM inks from your current supplier?

 

[Nwsltr]

Hi, thanks for the repsonse! I have gone through my agreement and do not see any obligation to buy inks from them

 

[Nwsltr]

What does it say about consumables in your leasing/maintenance agreement?
Are you obligated to purchase OEM inks from your current supplier?

Hi, thanks for the repsonse! I have gone through my agreement and do not see any obligation to buy inks from them

 

[Ynot_UK]

Am I correct in thinking duplicator contracts are different to dry toner presses in that you don't pay a click charge per se?
Have you got a contract for a fixed annual/monthly fee that covers parts & maintenance only?
Just if you have, I'm surprised they'll let you put non-OEM consumables in and still cover you.
Check that really carefully and if you're sure, I'd still ask the question and get it confirmed back on an email to cover your back.

 

[Nwsltr]

Am I correct in thinking duplicator contracts are different to dry toner presses in that you don't pay a click charge per se?
Have you got a contract for a fixed annual/monthly fee that covers parts & maintenance only?
Just if you have, I'm surprised they'll let you put non-OEM consumables in and still cover you.
Check that really carefully and if you're sure, I'd still ask the question and get it confirmed back on an email to cover your back.

Correct. I have a fixed monthly rental payment and ink supplies over and above. I already have brought up the question regarding using alternative suppliers and they adjusted their rates. Obviously if there is any damage caused by aftermarket inks then there may be an issues. Hence the question, what is the inherent risk of using these inks or are they much the same as name brand? I plan on alternating anyways so to keep my supplier happy but cutting some costs

 

[Ynot_UK]

Adjusted their rates for what?

I already have brought up the question regarding using alternative suppliers and they adjusted their rates. Obviously if there is any damage caused by aftermarket inks then there may be an issues.

When you say they "adjusted their rates", do you mean they made the price of their own inks more favourable, or increase the monthly contract charge?

 

[gregbatch]

I don't know of any aftermarket inks that are the same as the OEM oil based ink. However, there are a few good inks and you may even like them better. The important thing is quality control. You don't want a clogged head because the pigments are too coarse. I would only trust Forbes inks. USA made, high quality, and guaranteed.

 

[Nwsltr]

Adjusted their rates for what?

When you say they "adjusted their rates", do you mean they made the price of their own inks more favourable, or increase the monthly contract charge?

The made them slightly less expensive

 

[Nwsltr]

I don't know of any aftermarket inks that are the same as the OEM oil based ink. However, there are a few good inks and you may even like them better. The important thing is quality control. You don't want a clogged head because the pigments are too coarse. I would only trust Forbes inks. USA made, high quality, and guaranteed.

Thats what I am worried about. When you say Forbes Inks are you referring to this company, Duplicator Source | Rebuilt Digital Duplicators, Inkjet Printers, Parts & Supplies, Gestetner, Lanier, Ricoh, Riso, Savin, Standard, Riso ComColor, Riso HC Series because that is who I was going to use

 

[gregbatch]

Thats what I am worried about. When you say Forbes Inks are you referring to this company, Duplicator Source | Rebuilt Digital Duplicators, Inkjet Printers, Parts & Supplies, Gestetner, Lanier, Ricoh, Riso, Savin, Standard, Riso ComColor, Riso HC Series because that is who I was going to use

Yes. ForbesInkjet / Duplicator Source

 

[Ynot_UK]

The made them slightly less expensive

So they want to keep you. Turning this on its head, if you were obligated to buy inks from them, there was no need for the price movement. I'd still be wary about compatibles in any complex modern machine.

 

[Nwsltr]

So they want to keep you. Turning this on its head, if you were obligated to buy inks from them, there was no need for the price movement. I'd still be wary about compatibles in any complex modern machine.

I agree. I do not want to be making unnecessary problems for myself but at the same time if there are generic inks are just as good then I could save a ton of money. Are the brand inks just price gauging?

 

[gregbatch]

I agree. I do not want to be making unnecessary problems for myself but at the same time if there are generic inks are just as good then I could save a ton of money. Are the brand inks just price gauging?

Somewhat, yes. OEM is a proprietary oil based, pigmented ink produced in Japan. So it is going to be more expensive than water based ink produced in China. But Riso has always targeted schools, government, nonprofits, etc. on the premise of bringing color printing inhouse for much less cost than toner based machines. They have focused more on internal communication and transactional printing than anything. Color toner machines were expensive to own and operate, so Riso could target their ink price at a premium and still beat the pants off toner clicks. They have never pushed print for pay because they know they can't compete with the quality. Today, color clicks are cheap, and if you run real coverage numbers with Riso you will see there is little, if any difference, and often the Riso is more expensive per impression if you have anything but light coverage.

The Kyocera 15000c is a true production machine with quality that nears offset. Its price is up there with the high end toner machines, but you quickly see the difference in production cost. Compare your price for 1000 ml of ink to Kyocera 15000c inks at 1300 ml color for $130 and black for $110.

 

[Nwsltr]

Somewhat, yes. OEM is a proprietary oil based, pigmented ink produced in Japan. So it is going to be more expensive than water based ink produced in China. But Riso has always targeted schools, government, nonprofits, etc. on the premise of bringing color printing inhouse for much less cost than toner based machines. They have focused more on internal communication and transactional printing than anything. Color toner machines were expensive to own and operate, so Riso could target their ink price at a premium and still beat the pants off toner clicks. They have never pushed print for pay because they know they can't compete with the quality. Today, color clicks are cheap, and if you run real coverage numbers with Riso you will see there is little, if any difference, and often the Riso is more expensive per impression if you have anything but light coverage.

The Kyocera 15000c is a true production machine with quality that nears offset. Its price is up there with the high end toner machines, but you quickly see the difference in production cost. Compare your price for 1000 ml of ink to Kyocera 15000c inks at 1300 ml color for $130 and black for $110.

Thanks Greg, this makes a ton of sense now. My primary business is newsletters which require alot of coverage hence my desperation to find a cheaper solution. I think my price per page right now is around $0.02 if my calculations are correct. I am locked into the lease with the Riso for another 2 years so my only choice is to upgrade to a better riso or epson printer

 

[gregbatch]

Define what a page is. What was the approximate cost of the Riso and monthly?

 

[Nwsltr]

Define what a page is. What was the approximate cost of the Riso and monthly?

 

[gregbatch]

I don't think Epson is going to be any better for you. They are definitely targeted to enterprise accounts and the ink isn't much better in price. Upgrading the Riso will be no advantage. The engines are the same. Did you buy through an independent dealer?

GM Supplies sells genuine Riso ink for $425. Canon is now a Riso dealer and has been pushing Riso to commercial printers. Our Canon rep implied that they were selling much lower than retail dealers to print for pay customers. I didn't get specific pricing at that meeting. I have heard from others that the OEM black is better density than any aftermarket ink. They stick with OEM for black, and use aftermarket for CMYG.

 

[Nwsltr]

Thanks again for being so responsive Greg!
I am in a 3 year lease with a riso dealer which expires 2025.
If the OEM is oil based and aftermarkter is water based surely that is a problem?

 

[gregbatch]

If you can't find a cheaper source for OEM ink, your only option to reduce cost is aftermarket ink. My thoughts on the oil and water mix are the same. I have not seen prints from this combination. That also brings questions about the transition to aftermarket ink. Ideally, you would like to replace inks as needed, but the oil and water mix would seem to make that unlikely. I would replace all 5 at the same time and run a bunch of junk sheets with solid CMYGK bars to purge the old ink from the lines. I have talked with users of Forbes inks and not one has had any complaints. One shop in Maryland had put a million impressions on his ComColor using Forbes ink and said there was no way we would be profitable without it. So, I don't question the quality of the ink as far as damaging your machine. You just have to buy a set and see if the image quality meets your needs for your publications. Don't stress and remember that the value in your publications is the information. The recipient isn't going to analyze the printing (unless it's a retired printer). Make sure type is clear and easy to read. Check that images are not muddy. Have a few people other than yourself compare the old and the new. If you don't get negative feedback, you're good to go.